“that the free market is the best of all economic systems — the freer the better.” - the US is following this principle only until "too big to fail" guys have problems.
Andy Grove’s Warning to Silicon Valley
101–110 of 266 posts
Re: Andy Grove’s Warning to Silicon Valley
#102Germany sets a great example here with its local industrial production base and culture.
I have to wonder what other price is paid for that state of affairs. Is that the result of some sort of ... rigged game?
Not at all. However Germany has a massive trade imbalance because it's exporting all these products. There are only so many countries this can work for.
Recently-ish Germany is also aided by the fact that the rest of the eurozone isn't doing so well economically keeping the euro lower in value than a German currency would be.
Re: Andy Grove’s Warning to Silicon Valley
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We have created a gargantuan advertising industry that has zero net material gain for society Why do people say this, when they know full well that advertising drives people to buy things, and therefore, drive the economy?
Because an economy driven mainly by consumerism is not sustainable in the long run. Such an economy requires unchecked growth and this falls apart once society starts consuming for the sake of consumption.
Why does it require growth, and why does that growth have to be "unchecked", whatever that means. I don't see why one person producing one thing and consuming those produced by others is unworkable....or is that not consumerism?
Re: Andy Grove’s Warning to Silicon Valley
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because it doesn't. These people wouldn't just hoard their money because there is no ad telling them what to buy... They'd just be exercising their own agency, rather then cokes, or nikes.
> These people wouldn't just hoard their money because there is no ad telling them what to buy... wut? People see an ad, they're more likely buy that thing. If they don't see an ad, they don't buy that thing. You think people are still going to be spending their money if they aren't talked into buying things? lol. The economy grows when people spend money. Disincentivizing people from spending money is a good way to…
I don't watch ads and yet I still buy things. Granted, not as much as if I watched ads I'm sure.
Re: Andy Grove’s Warning to Silicon Valley
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
It can also be spectacularly successful . Although it wasn't a jobs program, WWII and its aftermath, driven by the state and centrally planned, resulted in great economic prosperity -perhaps unprecedented prosperity. Why can't we have a WWII on infrastructure, green energy, science funding, pollution cleanup, transportation, hyper-loops ?
>> WWII and its aftermath (...) resulted in great economic prosperity -perhaps unprecedented prosperity I don't think that applies to any other country except the U.S. England, for instance, almost went bankrupt and had to ask for an enormous loan from the U.S [1]. The entirety of the Mashall plan [2], if you only consider the western part of the iron curtain, is definite proof that WWII not only didn't benefit those…
I happen to believe prosperity can be willed into existence in some cases, and it doesn't require war. If you have significant unemployment, cooking up a plan to put those people to work in >0 productivity endeavors will result in increased prosperity, even if it isn't nearly as efficient (productive) as the free market would produce. The degree of the effectiveness is a function of how inefficient the natural economy is at the time (and monetary & cultural factors, etc), so it's certainly not a simple formula.
Re: Andy Grove’s Warning to Silicon Valley
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because an economy driven mainly by consumerism is not sustainable in the long run. Such an economy requires unchecked growth and this falls apart once society starts consuming for the sake of consumption.
The entire global economy since the beginning of time is about consuming. What makes you think it would fall apart at all?
Isn't it already happening.
If you put a population of flies in a closed container, even with an unlimited food supply, their population will grow and grow until it hits a peak and collapases. We are smarter than flies but to think we are not also constrained by nature is folly?
Re: Andy Grove’s Warning to Silicon Valley
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
Given the absolutely embarrassing state of our country, hole diggers are exactly what we need. Legitimately go pay someone to dig holes all day and lay single-mode fiber to every home. Pay them to turn a wrench replacing support brackets on a bridge. The Works program was the single most successful employer in this country's history and we replaced it with welfare because "unemployment is low and we don't need it any…
And when they're done? What about the jobs!
When they're done they start all over again. Unless you've invented some magical material that never needs replacing it will have broken down by the time they finish. It's not like we have so many unemployed people that we're going to replace/upgrade every piece of infrastructure that needs it in a year.
Re: Andy Grove’s Warning to Silicon Valley
#108> "There was room for improvement, he argued, for what he called “job-centric” economics and politics. In a job-centric system, job creation would be the nation’s No. 1 objective, with the government setting priorities and arraying the forces necessary to achieve the goal, and with businesses operating not only in their immediate profit interest but also in the interests of “employees, and employees yet to be hired.”…
You are invoking the famous, often-misunderstood fiscal policy outlined by Keynes. Here is the often-paraphrased text from The General Theory of Employment, Interest, and Money Book 3 Ch.10 Section VI [1]: "Pyramid-building, earthquakes, even wars may serve to increase wealth, if the education of our statesmen on the principles of the classical economics stands in the way of anything better...If the Treasury were to…
I don't understand how the example of burying money in mines and then covering it in garbage in order that people would dig them up increases wealth - if anything that is negative wealth creation.
Re: Andy Grove’s Warning to Silicon Valley
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because an economy driven mainly by consumerism is not sustainable in the long run. Such an economy requires unchecked growth and this falls apart once society starts consuming for the sake of consumption.
Why does it require growth, and why does that growth have to be "unchecked", whatever that means. I don't see why one person producing one thing and consuming those produced by others is unworkable....or is that not consumerism?
It's a pretty weak argument when you just pretend not to understand the language. There's no problem with consuming goods. That's necessary, but there are limits to what needs to be consumed. When the economy requires more consumption than is needed for its members to sustain a healthy lifestyle then it needs to be checked or at least not actively pushed further by government policies aimed specifically at increasing unneeded consumption.
Re: Andy Grove’s Warning to Silicon Valley
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Given the absolutely embarrassing state of our country, hole diggers are exactly what we need. Legitimately go pay someone to dig holes all day and lay single-mode fiber to every home. Pay them to turn a wrench replacing support brackets on a bridge. The Works program was the single most successful employer in this country's history and we replaced it with welfare because "unemployment is low and we don't need it any…
And when they're done? What about the jobs!
After getting prosperity for a generation by building strong infrastructure, I think we can safely turn this task over to the next generation.