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Launching the Electronic Frontier Alliance

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Re: Launching the Electronic Frontier Alliance

#51

Post by studentrob »

odinduty wrote: post #9
dreta wrote: post #5

"We anticipate participation from diverse movements such as Occupy, the Tea Party, Black Lives Matter, and the movements for immigrant rights, drug policy reform, peace and justice, gun rights, and others.” Alright, so i’ll be the first to say this. Colleges, and the mentioned movements, ESPECIALLY BLM, have a sick, warped sense of what the word “free expression” means. If you truly want to implement the 5 principles…

The EFF is a liberal lobby. I'm very concerned they are being regarded as the gatekeepers of our freedom, be it online or offline.

There's nothing inherently wrong with a lobbyist. They're there to help inform representatives. As for being the gatekeeper, well, nothing is stopping you from making your own website or group and sharing your own views, or writing to and calling your representatives. They are likely really confused about the digital world and some might appreciate a call from any respectful fellow who offered to clue them in. I could be wrong but anyway it wouldn't hurt and it'd give you a sense for how far your voice can project.

Re: Launching the Electronic Frontier Alliance

#52

Post by studentrob »

jordigh wrote: post #7
dreta wrote: post #5

"We anticipate participation from diverse movements such as Occupy, the Tea Party, Black Lives Matter, and the movements for immigrant rights, drug policy reform, peace and justice, gun rights, and others.” Alright, so i’ll be the first to say this. Colleges, and the mentioned movements, ESPECIALLY BLM, have a sick, warped sense of what the word “free expression” means. If you truly want to implement the 5 principles…

I was fully expecting someone in HN to get very upset about Black Lives Matter. I don't know much about them, but judging from their Wikipedia entry, as a whole the movement seems to be doing much more good than harm. It's also a pretty diverse group, and some have used the BLM monicker while being denounced by other members of BLM. So don't paint them all with the same brush. It's like saying that you're against Joh…

For sure, thoigh some of them advocate violence and separatism, and at some points people with such views had a lot of followers, kind of like the Trump followers who are filled with fear of Muslims.

Note that the BLM logo is the black panther logo, and they were largely viewed as separatists. I'm all for the movement when it is peaceful and respectful of American values, but when people who advocate having their own space start having a louder voice, then I lose interest.

Re: Launching the Electronic Frontier Alliance

#53

Post by Caprinicus »

iza wrote: post #36
sigmar wrote: post #4

Is there anywhere that an individual could get more involved with these five principles and the EFF? Maybe like a slack group to discuss and promote encryption and privacy?

https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy might be worth a look

The people in that subreddit didn't understand how things like encryption and TOR worked last time I was there.

Re: Launching the Electronic Frontier Alliance

#54

Post by dreta »

tptacek wrote: post #17
dreta wrote: post #5

"We anticipate participation from diverse movements such as Occupy, the Tea Party, Black Lives Matter, and the movements for immigrant rights, drug policy reform, peace and justice, gun rights, and others.” Alright, so i’ll be the first to say this. Colleges, and the mentioned movements, ESPECIALLY BLM, have a sick, warped sense of what the word “free expression” means. If you truly want to implement the 5 principles…

Please don't take threads on pointless ideological tangents. You are welcome to not like BLM, but you should know that there's no good outcome to litigating it here.

Who the EFA aligns with is relevant to the thread.

Currently the left in USA seems to conflate freedom of expression with freedom from different opinions, and, at least the mainstream left, seem to want more government involvement in the policing of speech.

So again, all of this matters, because it shows how they do, or might, define what their principles mean to them versus what they mean to you or me.

Re: Launching the Electronic Frontier Alliance

#55

Post by dreta »

cenal wrote: post #8
dreta wrote: post #5

"We anticipate participation from diverse movements such as Occupy, the Tea Party, Black Lives Matter, and the movements for immigrant rights, drug policy reform, peace and justice, gun rights, and others.” Alright, so i’ll be the first to say this. Colleges, and the mentioned movements, ESPECIALLY BLM, have a sick, warped sense of what the word “free expression” means. If you truly want to implement the 5 principles…

When I see something like this posted on the Internet I am reminded of a quote attributed to Socrates by Plato: "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise." Every older generation tend to view the younger generation as a problem.

I’m 27. This is my generation we’re talking about.

Re: Launching the Electronic Frontier Alliance

#56

Post by dreta »

jordigh wrote: post #7
dreta wrote: post #5

"We anticipate participation from diverse movements such as Occupy, the Tea Party, Black Lives Matter, and the movements for immigrant rights, drug policy reform, peace and justice, gun rights, and others.” Alright, so i’ll be the first to say this. Colleges, and the mentioned movements, ESPECIALLY BLM, have a sick, warped sense of what the word “free expression” means. If you truly want to implement the 5 principles…

I was fully expecting someone in HN to get very upset about Black Lives Matter. I don't know much about them, but judging from their Wikipedia entry, as a whole the movement seems to be doing much more good than harm. It's also a pretty diverse group, and some have used the BLM monicker while being denounced by other members of BLM. So don't paint them all with the same brush. It's like saying that you're against Joh…

The Wikipedia is the absolute last place you should ever visit to read up on political movements. It’s a biased source.

If you say you support a particular movement, you’re taking on the whole baggage it brings. If you don’t want the whole baggage then don’t name names.

Re: Launching the Electronic Frontier Alliance

#57

Post by CM30 »

Karunamon wrote: post #16
jordigh wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was fully expecting someone in HN to get very upset about Black Lives Matter. I don't know much about them, but judging from their Wikipedia entry, as a whole the movement seems to be doing much more good than harm. It's also a pretty diverse group, and some have used the BLM monicker while being denounced by other members of BLM. So don't paint them all with the same brush. It's like saying that you're against Joh…

After having read the talk pages and controversies surrounding a number of politically charged wiki articles, I could not in good faith use them as a source to determine which political groups have a positive or negative influence. I'm starting to think disjoint, disorganized movements like BLM are a bad idea just from an organizational standpoint. It means your message can't be controlled, it means its up to each in…

These disjoint, disorganised movements exist to try and avoid another issue; that of a single person or group of people who can be 'discredited' or attacked by their enemies.

If you have a proper structure, you provide targets to discredit in order to bring down a movement or group. Groups like Occupy and Black Lives Matter and whatever else don't want a 'pope' like figure that the media can focus all their efforts on attacking, nor an organisational structure that can get infiltrated or corrupted.

Unfortunately, that causes the trade off you mention; you have no way to control the message your movement sends. This is what's caused so many problems with GamerGate as well, the fact it's entirely based on a hashtag and a loosely associated bunch of forums and blogs means that their enemies accuse them of absolutely everything they don't like that day.

But it's a trade off. Either have it decentralised and avoid the issue of a single leader/organisation being a media target (but lose the ability to control the message and who's involved) or have it centralised with a clear leader and structure at the cost of these people getting attacked non stop by their enemies and people trying their best to decredit/arrest/potentially kill them.

Re: Launching the Electronic Frontier Alliance

#58

Post by tdaltonc »

nabla9 wrote: post #35
callcallcall wrote: post #3

Here's some other ways to support: To donate: https://supporters.eff.org/donate/button To Learn: https://www.youtube.com/user/EFForg To call your representatives: http://TryVoices.com

"There is no reason why digital rights cannot triumph as often as gun rights. The triumph of anything is a matter of organization. If there are such things as digital rights activists, I hope that they are organized along the lines of the NRA." – Kurt Vonnegut, mutatis mutandis

Do they grade all congress persons and their opponents?

Re: Launching the Electronic Frontier Alliance

#59

Post by pdkl95 »

kazazes wrote: post #19
hackuser wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why the EFF (and ACLU for that matter) are considered liberal. Aren't they libertarian, if anything? Don't conservatives care about privacy, freedom of expression, freedom of the press, religious freedom, and other civil rights? Rejecting the EFF and ACLU looks to me like partisanship over country or principle: We don't care what they are doing, we're going to reject them because there is some asso…

The ACLU specifically was on the opposing end of plenty of Bush-era legislation and got labeled as such. My childhood memories are pocketed with soundbites of Bill O'Reilly denouncing the ACLU as a bastion of American liberalism.

It's not the ACLU's fault that reality has a liberal bias.

(for a Bush-era, Bill O'Reilly-ish-style definition of "liberal")

Re: Launching the Electronic Frontier Alliance

#60

Post by jordigh »

dreta wrote: post #56
jordigh wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was fully expecting someone in HN to get very upset about Black Lives Matter. I don't know much about them, but judging from their Wikipedia entry, as a whole the movement seems to be doing much more good than harm. It's also a pretty diverse group, and some have used the BLM monicker while being denounced by other members of BLM. So don't paint them all with the same brush. It's like saying that you're against Joh…

The Wikipedia is the absolute last place you should ever visit to read up on political movements. It’s a biased source. If you say you support a particular movement, you’re taking on the whole baggage it brings. If you don’t want the whole baggage then don’t name names.

> It’s a biased source.

Every source is biased. Wikipedia tries harder to be less biased. And hey, you can frequently change the bias if you just go and edit the article yourself.

I suppose I should read Wikipedia and Conservapedia and take the average of the two to get closer to the truth? :-)

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