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Andy Grove’s Warning to Silicon Valley

nytimes.com

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Re: Andy Grove’s Warning to Silicon Valley

#81

Post by atom-morgan »

tw04 wrote: post #76
luso_brazilian wrote: post #9

> "There was room for improvement, he argued, for what he called “job-centric” economics and politics. In a job-centric system, job creation would be the nation’s No. 1 objective, with the government setting priorities and arraying the forces necessary to achieve the goal, and with businesses operating not only in their immediate profit interest but also in the interests of “employees, and employees yet to be hired.”…

Given the absolutely embarrassing state of our country, hole diggers are exactly what we need. Legitimately go pay someone to dig holes all day and lay single-mode fiber to every home. Pay them to turn a wrench replacing support brackets on a bridge. The Works program was the single most successful employer in this country's history and we replaced it with welfare because "unemployment is low and we don't need it any…

And when they're done? What about the jobs!

Re: Andy Grove’s Warning to Silicon Valley

#83

Post by mozumder »

1stop wrote: post #79
mozumder wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have created a gargantuan advertising industry that has zero net material gain for society Why do people say this, when they know full well that advertising drives people to buy things, and therefore, drive the economy?

Because it doesn't. These people wouldn't just hoard their money because there is no ad telling them what to buy... They'd just be exercising their own agency, rather then cokes, or nikes.

> These people wouldn't just hoard their money because there is no ad telling them what to buy...

wut?

People see an ad, they're more likely buy that thing. If they don't see an ad, they don't buy that thing.

You think people are still going to be spending their money if they aren't talked into buying things? lol.

The economy grows when people spend money. Disincentivizing people from spending money is a good way to make sure the economy dies.

Always be selling. NO exceptions. Coffee is for closers.

Re: Andy Grove’s Warning to Silicon Valley

#85

Post by hyperpallium »

Well, most people need employment, so of course that should be a priority of a government for/by/of the people.

The article skipped what he meant by "priorities" and "forces". Presumbly, it's not forcing companies to make up jobs, but by things like lowering employment transaction costs and making the people more valuable.

Education is the obvious one, but it needs to be education that actually does make one more valuable. Also make sure the people are healthy. Better infrastructure - pretty much all those "government" things.

Re: Andy Grove’s Warning to Silicon Valley

#87

Post by jlarocco »

jessedhillon wrote: post #50
kiba wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The advertising industrial complex is paradoxically what employers are willing to pay for, but we humans don't need.

Honestly explain this to me: in what sense do we not need advertising? I don't want to research the 200 brands of almond milk or 85 sushi restaurants in my neighborhood -- I want some proxy, however imperfect, for their quality, availability and value. I want someone to come find me and tell me that their milk or restaurant or whatever exists. And as someone who sells things, how am I supposed to make the public awar…

Advertising doesn't solve any of those problems, but makes them all worse.

Now instead of 200 brands of almond milk and 85 sushi restaurants to try or ask your friends about, you have 285 companies shoving ads in your face, all insisting they're the "best", when obviously they all can't be.

In fact, having to sort through 285 ads is worse than actually trying 285 products, because the advertisements are completely disconnected from the quality of the actual products.

Offer a good product and people will come back and tell their friends. That's the alternative to advertising, because it's what people will do anyway.

Re: Andy Grove’s Warning to Silicon Valley

#88

Post by digi_owl »

atom-morgan wrote: post #81
tw04 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the absolutely embarrassing state of our country, hole diggers are exactly what we need. Legitimately go pay someone to dig holes all day and lay single-mode fiber to every home. Pay them to turn a wrench replacing support brackets on a bridge. The Works program was the single most successful employer in this country's history and we replaced it with welfare because "unemployment is low and we don't need it any…

And when they're done? What about the jobs!

Who knows.

More jobs, more wages, more actual money in the economy to displace credit cards and pay down household debt, and improved infrastructure may well see new business opportunities come into existence.

Re: Andy Grove’s Warning to Silicon Valley

#89

Post by jcoffland »

atom-morgan wrote: post #81
tw04 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the absolutely embarrassing state of our country, hole diggers are exactly what we need. Legitimately go pay someone to dig holes all day and lay single-mode fiber to every home. Pay them to turn a wrench replacing support brackets on a bridge. The Works program was the single most successful employer in this country's history and we replaced it with welfare because "unemployment is low and we don't need it any…

And when they're done? What about the jobs!

What makes you think they will ever be done?

Re: Andy Grove’s Warning to Silicon Valley

#90

Post by digi_owl »

hitekker wrote: post #67
zanny wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a significant confluence among those who find prosperity and purpose through jobs to conflate the concepts of employment and purpose. That to not have a job is to not have a purpose, and vice versa. If we had a planned economy built around peak employment, we would have many fewer entrepreneurs and many more, as you say, hole diggers. Socially we already do that. We have created a gargantuan advertis…

I am reminded of what George Orwelles wrote in "Down and out in Paris and London": > Beggars do not work, it is said; but then, what is work? A navvy works by swinging a pick. An accountant works by adding up figures. A beggar works by standing out of doors in all weathers and getting varicose veins, bronchitis etc. It is a trade like any other; quite useless, of course — but, then, many reputable trades are quite us…

> but, then, many reputable trades are quite useless

Brings to mind Graeber's article on "bullshit jobs".

http://strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/

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