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Launching the Electronic Frontier Alliance

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Re: Launching the Electronic Frontier Alliance

#11

Post by Nrsolis »

odinduty wrote: post #9
dreta wrote: post #5

"We anticipate participation from diverse movements such as Occupy, the Tea Party, Black Lives Matter, and the movements for immigrant rights, drug policy reform, peace and justice, gun rights, and others.” Alright, so i’ll be the first to say this. Colleges, and the mentioned movements, ESPECIALLY BLM, have a sick, warped sense of what the word “free expression” means. If you truly want to implement the 5 principles…

The EFF is a liberal lobby. I'm very concerned they are being regarded as the gatekeepers of our freedom, be it online or offline.

Well, if there was a more right-leaning advocacy organization that provided a similar level of lobbying and awareness for all of the digital issues that are important to people like me, I might consider contributing. I donate to the EFF now and will continue to do so.

I don't like the mention of groups like Occupy and BLM. Those are anarchist groups and I have no use for them. Coordinating with them will do our side (the side that cares about making sure we retain all of our rights in the "digital world" that we do in the physical one) more harm than good.

Re: Launching the Electronic Frontier Alliance

#12

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

dreta wrote: post #5

"We anticipate participation from diverse movements such as Occupy, the Tea Party, Black Lives Matter, and the movements for immigrant rights, drug policy reform, peace and justice, gun rights, and others.” Alright, so i’ll be the first to say this. Colleges, and the mentioned movements, ESPECIALLY BLM, have a sick, warped sense of what the word “free expression” means. If you truly want to implement the 5 principles…

Please remember the paradox of tolerance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

It is vital to understand that free speech, privacy, and many other rights, are inherently in conflict to some degree.

Whether you think people are striking the right balance is a different matter, and not one I will talk of here, though.

Re: Launching the Electronic Frontier Alliance

#13

Post by komali2 »

odinduty wrote: post #10
jordigh wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was fully expecting someone in HN to get very upset about Black Lives Matter. I don't know much about them, but judging from their Wikipedia entry, as a whole the movement seems to be doing much more good than harm. It's also a pretty diverse group, and some have used the BLM monicker while being denounced by other members of BLM. So don't paint them all with the same brush. It's like saying that you're against Joh…

>It's like saying that you're against John Stuart Mill or Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz because you dislike feminism[1]. I don't see why you'd have to be against a person just because they support a different point of view on some specific issue.

Really? A person can be the flagship of a movement that is so opposed to your point of view as to be dangerous. A radically religious up and coming politician for example. Or, I suppose, Hitler.

Re: Launching the Electronic Frontier Alliance

#14

Post by hackuser »

odinduty wrote: post #9
dreta wrote: post #5

"We anticipate participation from diverse movements such as Occupy, the Tea Party, Black Lives Matter, and the movements for immigrant rights, drug policy reform, peace and justice, gun rights, and others.” Alright, so i’ll be the first to say this. Colleges, and the mentioned movements, ESPECIALLY BLM, have a sick, warped sense of what the word “free expression” means. If you truly want to implement the 5 principles…

The EFF is a liberal lobby. I'm very concerned they are being regarded as the gatekeepers of our freedom, be it online or offline.

I don't understand why the EFF (and ACLU for that matter) are considered liberal. Aren't they libertarian, if anything? Don't conservatives care about privacy, freedom of expression, freedom of the press, religious freedom, and other civil rights?

Rejecting the EFF and ACLU looks to me like partisanship over country or principle: We don't care what they are doing, we're going to reject them because there is some association with liberalism. Fighting liberalism is more important than civil rights or anything else.

Re: Launching the Electronic Frontier Alliance

#15

Post by odinduty »

komali2 wrote: post #13
odinduty wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's like saying that you're against John Stuart Mill or Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz because you dislike feminism[1]. I don't see why you'd have to be against a person just because they support a different point of view on some specific issue.

Really? A person can be the flagship of a movement that is so opposed to your point of view as to be dangerous. A radically religious up and coming politician for example. Or, I suppose, Hitler.

Of course, but he was quoting a "list of feminists", which I haven't clicked but I guess contains dozens or even hundreds of individuals, whose lives most likely don't revolve around feminism.

Re: Launching the Electronic Frontier Alliance

#16

Post by Karunamon »

jordigh wrote: post #7
dreta wrote: post #5

"We anticipate participation from diverse movements such as Occupy, the Tea Party, Black Lives Matter, and the movements for immigrant rights, drug policy reform, peace and justice, gun rights, and others.” Alright, so i’ll be the first to say this. Colleges, and the mentioned movements, ESPECIALLY BLM, have a sick, warped sense of what the word “free expression” means. If you truly want to implement the 5 principles…

I was fully expecting someone in HN to get very upset about Black Lives Matter. I don't know much about them, but judging from their Wikipedia entry, as a whole the movement seems to be doing much more good than harm. It's also a pretty diverse group, and some have used the BLM monicker while being denounced by other members of BLM. So don't paint them all with the same brush. It's like saying that you're against Joh…

After having read the talk pages and controversies surrounding a number of politically charged wiki articles, I could not in good faith use them as a source to determine which political groups have a positive or negative influence.

I'm starting to think disjoint, disorganized movements like BLM are a bad idea just from an organizational standpoint. It means your message can't be controlled, it means its up to each individual member what the groups means, and worst of all, It takes just one idiot doing something wrong before the whole movement is permanently tainted - mostly because the majority of people will not exercise the same benefit of the doubt you just did.

Re: Launching the Electronic Frontier Alliance

#17

Post by tptacek »

dreta wrote: post #5

"We anticipate participation from diverse movements such as Occupy, the Tea Party, Black Lives Matter, and the movements for immigrant rights, drug policy reform, peace and justice, gun rights, and others.” Alright, so i’ll be the first to say this. Colleges, and the mentioned movements, ESPECIALLY BLM, have a sick, warped sense of what the word “free expression” means. If you truly want to implement the 5 principles…

Please don't take threads on pointless ideological tangents. You are welcome to not like BLM, but you should know that there's no good outcome to litigating it here.

Re: Launching the Electronic Frontier Alliance

#18

Post by zmanian »

In 2013, the initial Snowden documents instantly clarified for me that mass surveillance was the most pressing threat to democracy.

I've been working loosely with EFF and ACLU on Surveillance issues for nearly three years.

The process of transitioning from passive interest to part time activism wasn't easy as no on ramps really existed. I had to build them myself.

I'm hoping EFA will become one of those on ramps.

Re: Launching the Electronic Frontier Alliance

#19

Post by kazazes »

hackuser wrote: post #14
odinduty wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EFF is a liberal lobby. I'm very concerned they are being regarded as the gatekeepers of our freedom, be it online or offline.

I don't understand why the EFF (and ACLU for that matter) are considered liberal. Aren't they libertarian, if anything? Don't conservatives care about privacy, freedom of expression, freedom of the press, religious freedom, and other civil rights? Rejecting the EFF and ACLU looks to me like partisanship over country or principle: We don't care what they are doing, we're going to reject them because there is some asso…

The ACLU specifically was on the opposing end of plenty of Bush-era legislation and got labeled as such. My childhood memories are pocketed with soundbites of Bill O'Reilly denouncing the ACLU as a bastion of American liberalism.

Re: Launching the Electronic Frontier Alliance

#20

Post by Karunamon »

tptacek wrote: post #17
dreta wrote: post #5

"We anticipate participation from diverse movements such as Occupy, the Tea Party, Black Lives Matter, and the movements for immigrant rights, drug policy reform, peace and justice, gun rights, and others.” Alright, so i’ll be the first to say this. Colleges, and the mentioned movements, ESPECIALLY BLM, have a sick, warped sense of what the word “free expression” means. If you truly want to implement the 5 principles…

Please don't take threads on pointless ideological tangents. You are welcome to not like BLM, but you should know that there's no good outcome to litigating it here.

The EFF is the one that brought it up in the OP...
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