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PriceZombie is shutting down

pricezombie.com

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Re: PriceZombie is shutting down

#211

Post by zaroth »

Probably too late to comment (what a shame discussion is so time limited) but what interests me about this story is that they call out hosting costs as the reason to shut down.

I would love to see numbers from this operation, like we saw after Everpix. I would love to understand the scale, if it really would cost so much to host it?

So perhaps the actual take away is they didn't really violate the ToS as it is written, but they got kicked out and should have known it would happen. They may have been targeted because they show competitors pricing. Either way, it's sad to lose the service, but hard to chase those customers, because the customer won't pay. They are trying to sell the IP and maybe the company, and apparently there's some sturdy tech with broad applications!

What's so tricky is the dispute isn't about API access for the latest pricing, but rather their affiliate revenue. That can be canceled for any reason at any time, so that they still get the API and could find other revenue streams is a key point. They are not "entitled" to Amazon affiliate revenue, so then the question is -- where's the story?

Re: PriceZombie is shutting down

#212

Post by omginternets »

CaptSpify wrote: post #199
omginternets wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you guys are stretching the analogy way too far. As I see things: it's a private matter and doesn't map well onto a public analogy. The bottom line is that Amazon can deem it acceptable to allow behavior one day, and change it's mind the next. If you systematically rely on your partner's humor, you're doing something wrong.

I agree its allowed for amazon to do this, but its still a dick move

Right, and that's the point! If you're systematically in a position where you have to worry about "dick moves" from your partners, you're doing something very, very wrong.

Amazon might be dicks, but not to the extent that PriceZombie is foolish.

(I get the sense we're saying the same thing, though :) )

Re: PriceZombie is shutting down

#213

Post by jazoom »

This is sad. I really feel for them. I'm making a similar website for another country and am planning to bring it to the US later this year. It will largely fill the gap of Price Zombie. Big shoes to fill, though.

Re: PriceZombie is shutting down

#215

Post by iolothebard »

cookiecaper wrote: post #185
gberger wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter how they scrape. They could continue scraping prices if they wanted to. The problem is they lost access to the Affiliates API -- which is how they make money.

They couldn't continue scraping without Amazon's permission. The CFAA makes that illegal.

Not sure how: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act#P...

Re: PriceZombie is shutting down

#216

Post by cookiecaper »

iolothebard wrote: post #215
cookiecaper wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They couldn't continue scraping without Amazon's permission. The CFAA makes that illegal.

Not sure how: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act#P...

Most Terms of Use contain language that states that automated access is unauthorized, and most companies allege you've agreed to their Terms of Use by accessing any page other than their front page (or accessing the front page more than once). Furthermore, even if this is lacking, once a company provides notice that you are no longer authorized to access their computers, it doesn't matter what the Terms of Use may say or whether the ToU is considered a binding contract; you've received notice that your access is unauthorized.

The CFAA generally applies to any computer access, as the Commerce Clause has been interpreted as applying to completely intra-state transactions (ignoring the fact that most computer access crosses state lines, which would make it a federal issue anyway), and thus, effectively all computers attached to the internet are "protected computers". Even if you're able to prevail in the argument that the CFAA is not applicable, there are similarly-worded state statutes, and as mentioned, other issues may federal matters, like alleged copyright and trademark infringement (which is usually alleged in such cases).

The CFAA is somewhat grey so if you have a few hundred k or more to flush on your lawyers, go ahead, it's possible that you may win. For most people, it's not relevant, because they can't afford to go head-to-head against a major global corporate entity like Amazon. One of the main goals of such a company is to make the lawsuit as costly as possible for the opposing party, since they have infinity money and they know that their opponent likely doesn't.

If you're interested, there have been a handful of cases already litigated on the CFAA. The scrapers usually get smoked hard. Look up Ticketmaster v. RMG Technologies, Craigslist v. 3Taps, Register.com v. Verio, and Facebook v. Power Ventures to get started.

Re: PriceZombie is shutting down

#217

Post by dave2000 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #133
dave2000 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But Amazon can..... In fairness, I believe all affiliate programs are like that." My point is that most other companies are like that, and the difference is just the extent to which these parasitical "internet businesses" are coupled to their host. They're not `keeping the money`, they're just not paying you stuff that's not covered by the contract, TOS etc. It's not `without warning` by the same token; unless the w…

Except in the many many cases where companies are shut down despite not violating the TOS.

In precisely zero cases are companies "shut down".

Re: PriceZombie is shutting down

#218

Post by mwexler »

ikeboy wrote: post #159
MrApathy wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's wrong with Google shopping? I've found deals using it, it's had greater than zero value for me. The Google shopping that exists today is not the same service that was originally launched. It used to function more like a standard search, but limited to all online stores. So long as there wasn't a robots.txt, Google was index the site and include the product in their shopping results. So basically like standar…

I know that they moved to paid inclusion, but as I said, it's still useful. GP said it was "killed", and that seemed too much.

Killed from it's original vision; the remaining is a shadow of what it was. Big shadow, admittedly. But fair point, my hyperbole may have gotten out of control.

Re: PriceZombie is shutting down

#219

Post by mattlutze »

InsideTrack wrote: post #75
mattlutze wrote: post #22

The issue here wasn't that they were just using Amazon's API and then lost access. The Amazon TOS says don't store and display our old prices and, per the post, that's what PriceZombie was doing. The lesson is that if you're doing something in violation of a partner's TOS and start to negatively effect their business, the partner is well within their rights to cut off access. Whether other businesses have or haven't…

You miss the point. PriceZombie was above board with what they were doing at all times. Amazon TOLD THEM that as long as their latest price was within 24 hours they could display price history like dozens of other price trackers were doing. PZ was reviewed three times, not just by low level people but higher up in the chain, and each time there was no question they were within the TOS so long as they displayed the cu…

I guess we'll need some references here -- that's a lot of either inside knowledge or assumptions otherwise.

If they did have permission from Amazon to violate the TOS, I hope they had a contract to do so with protections/compensation for early termination.

If not, the situation is not unlike how off label drug usage can be okay until the FDA tells you to stop. Once they change their minds, that's that.

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