Can you fundraise in Silicon Valley while pregnant? • Hacker News Board

Re: Can you fundraise in Silicon Valley while pregnant?

#81

Post by Diamons » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 7:08 PM UTC

ksenzee wrote: post #62

x0x0 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bluntly, I assume a woman will be far more involved in childcare than a man. This is backed up by the fact that it's often true, and is a reasonable prior. A male ceo -- and I've worked for several of these -- can / often does have a housewife, and is able to dump virtually all childcare off onto her. Crucially including getting up all night to breastfeed. Women often don't have that and/or don't want that. Not to me…

> Bluntly, I assume a woman will be far more involved in childcare than a man. That's a fair assumption across an entire population, but I doubt it applies very well to the population of women looking for funding. They're going to be a lot more likely than the average woman to prioritize business over childcare, and a lot more likely to have a stay-at-home spouse.

A child needs all the nurturing it can get. Choosing to start a company and raise funding while a human being needs you more than it ever will is selfish as well as morally and ethically wrong.

Re: Can you fundraise in Silicon Valley while pregnant?

#82

Post by home_boi » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 7:08 PM UTC

ergothus wrote: post #35

akud wrote: post #30

In my experience, people tend to seriously underestimate the amount of work a baby takes, and the strain it adds to relationships, work life, and emotional health. I certainly did. I think it's reasonable for investors to wonder if a person's commitment won't change when they have a baby. I would advise the authors that they really can't forsee what their priorities will be like when the baby comes. It sounds trite,…

Purely for the purposes of clarity: Is that you'd hold any founder expecting a baby to the same standard, male or female? (though it is normally easier to recognize a pregnant woman than someone with a pregnant partner) Or do you see the load you describe falling primarily upon women?

Females have to face the physical/mental side effects of pregnancy in addition to the complications of child care. Females become the primary care taker at higher rates than males. Primary care takers are less productive and less devoted.

This isn't just a coincidence. Females have the choice of having a child while males do not. Males only have the choice to give a female the choice of having a child with the male. Naturally, the person who makes the choice of having a child most likely values children more, which leads to a higher chance of becoming the primary care taker. There are also benefits that are exclusive to female primary care takers.

If a female and a male have the same profile and they both are expecting children, the male will have a higher expected value because of the physical/emotional complications of a pregnancy and a lower chance of being the primary care taker.

People are investing real money here. It is what it is.

Re: Can you fundraise in Silicon Valley while pregnant?

#83

Post by x0x0 » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 7:12 PM UTC

__abc wrote: post #76

rayiner wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much time does it take to "raise a baby correctly?" Parenting is heavily driven by cargo culting, old wives' tales, and conventional wisdom; but very little by actual data.

A metric major fuck ton. If you truly want to be present and have an active role in your child's life, growth, development et al it's going to force your priorities to shuffle around. If your "startup" is still a priority (but not above your child) you aren't going to be in the office from sun up to sun down. Period. You'll have to make up those hours later (when the child is sleeping) however, in months 0-24, that's…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7779598

Re: Can you fundraise in Silicon Valley while pregnant?

#84

Post by mentat » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 7:13 PM UTC

wolfgke wrote: post #4

Can you fundraise if you openly say that you have a time-intensive hobby that you will under no circumstances give up for working on your company? Thanks to modern contraceptive methods getting pregnant is a choice. The same as doing a time-intense hobby. If you would not finance someone who openly says that he/she will not give up his/her time-intense hobby for the company, isn't this the same as not financing peopl…

I'm not sure how to read this other than equivalence which makes me wonder how out of touch this is with "the world". Is business what we do without children? Can we really walk in our customers shoes with understand this essential part of human life or are children now just another optional activity that people just opt out of if they're too busy consuming? And people wonder why the demographics of the country are skewing conservative.

Re: Can you fundraise in Silicon Valley while pregnant?

#85

Post by x0x0 » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 7:14 PM UTC

Diamons wrote: post #81

ksenzee wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bluntly, I assume a woman will be far more involved in childcare than a man. That's a fair assumption across an entire population, but I doubt it applies very well to the population of women looking for funding. They're going to be a lot more likely than the average woman to prioritize business over childcare, and a lot more likely to have a stay-at-home spouse.

A child needs all the nurturing it can get. Choosing to start a company and raise funding while a human being needs you more than it ever will is selfish as well as morally and ethically wrong.

Do you feel the same about the men who do it?

Also, historically, lots of kids, particularly of the upper class, were largely raised by nannies and it appears to have worked.

Re: Can you fundraise in Silicon Valley while pregnant?

#86

Post by mentat » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 7:20 PM UTC

NTDF9 wrote: post #45

I recently discussed this with my girlfriend. I can only conclude that there are 2 sides to the story, let's call them 2 truths: Truth 1: No individual (regardless of sex) can run a startup as a CEO if they are incapacitated somehow Truth 2: Individuals (regardless of sex) need to prioritize. NOBODY can have it all. With that in mind, women need to understand that: 1. They will be incapacitated if they get pregnant 2…

> A man cannot go become a CEO if he's broke and needs to feed his family

Your biases are showing. But really, I'm not sure what you're saying here. People living in partnership with others can raise children AND do other things. This is not "having it all", this is working hard to make your life what you want it to be.

Re: Can you fundraise in Silicon Valley while pregnant?

#87

Post by ergothus » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 7:40 PM UTC

home_boi wrote: post #82

ergothus wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Purely for the purposes of clarity: Is that you'd hold any founder expecting a baby to the same standard, male or female? (though it is normally easier to recognize a pregnant woman than someone with a pregnant partner) Or do you see the load you describe falling primarily upon women?

Females have to face the physical/mental side effects of pregnancy in addition to the complications of child care. Females become the primary care taker at higher rates than males. Primary care takers are less productive and less devoted. This isn't just a coincidence. Females have the choice of having a child while males do not. Males only have the choice to give a female the choice of having a child with the male.…

You seem to be reacting defensively to a post that explicitly stated I was asking purely for clarity.

Now, given EITHER ANSWER, there are discussions that can be had, but I didn't raise them.

Re: Can you fundraise in Silicon Valley while pregnant?

#88

Post by salgernon » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 7:42 PM UTC

home_boi wrote: post #82

ergothus wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Purely for the purposes of clarity: Is that you'd hold any founder expecting a baby to the same standard, male or female? (though it is normally easier to recognize a pregnant woman than someone with a pregnant partner) Or do you see the load you describe falling primarily upon women?

Females have to face the physical/mental side effects of pregnancy in addition to the complications of child care. Females become the primary care taker at higher rates than males. Primary care takers are less productive and less devoted. This isn't just a coincidence. Females have the choice of having a child while males do not. Males only have the choice to give a female the choice of having a child with the male.…

Then change "it". "It" is a problem, and "it" is wrong.

By your logic, before any investment is made a complete health scan of all founders should be completed, including a mental health assay.

If a founder gets cancer, should they be fired? They're going to have to take time off to get it removed, followed by months if not years of time lost to chemotherapy.

If you replace tumor with baby, and chemotherapy with pediatric appointments, is there any difference?

Anecdote: When I was 13, my father, CEO of a subsidiary of a large Japanese conglomerate, was treated for and cleared of prostate cancer. It runs in my family and killed his father and grandfather. When he returned to work about 4 weeks later, he was fired as the larger corporation had decided that it was too risky to have someone that could get sick be a C level employee. It is what it is?

Re: Can you fundraise in Silicon Valley while pregnant?

#89

Post by ergothus » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 7:42 PM UTC

facepalm wrote: post #56

ergothus wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Purely for the purposes of clarity: Is that you'd hold any founder expecting a baby to the same standard, male or female? (though it is normally easier to recognize a pregnant woman than someone with a pregnant partner) Or do you see the load you describe falling primarily upon women?

Would you say it is unnatural to assume that a mother is more likely to be preoccupied with her baby than the father? If the plan is for the father to take over, why not mention it while fundraising? Even so, there is physical strain that is likely to take a toll on the mother, which might cost a few productive months. Breastfeeding might also be an issue, waking the mother several times per night.

You've raised questions as if I had made an argument in the opposite. Instead, I asked purely for clarity.

It's always a challenge to resolve the "separate but equal" concepts that arise from a mix of different biologies and desire for egalitarian society. I asked for the clarity because I wanted any such discussions to be directed at the right audiences, in the right context.

Apparently I failed at that, since you felt I was taking a strong position.

Re: Can you fundraise in Silicon Valley while pregnant?

#90

Post by rsmsky1 » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 7:56 PM UTC

chiph wrote: post #64

rsmsky1 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean after giving birth isn't there a certain amount of time where one can't do much? One doesn't just give birth and hop right back up. For instance in my pilates class a woman who wasn't even visibly pregnant said she had to be careful because previously she had a miscarriage after doing pilates. So if even light exercising such as pilates, I can't imagine what more intense effort such as the stress of running a…

My mom was on a bowling team while carrying me. Unfortunately, none of that experience transferred across the womb, and I'm still mediocre at it. Having a c-section was common back then (I was born via one), so there is a recovery time with that, as the muscles knit back together. Every woman is different. I have known women who have gotten right back into their exercise routine, and others who have taken a fair amou…

It's not as though my doctor has time to answer my questions about random women. I prefer to spend my time with my doctor talking about my health. But given the changes to one's body during pregnancy and physical needs, etc, it seems reasonable to me, unfortunately to be cautious about investing in a woman who is pregnant.