Can you fundraise in Silicon Valley while pregnant? • Hacker News Board

Re: Can you fundraise in Silicon Valley while pregnant?

#51

Post by CalRobert » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 5:58 PM UTC

wolfgke wrote: post #34

CalRobert wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention that one has to wonder what the point of all this is if we're going to deny people one of the most basic aspects of the human experience. I'm all for family planning, smaller families for the sake of the planet, etc. but c'mon, are we going to tell ambitious people they can pretty much _never_ have kids? Aren't these the sort of folks we should be hoping _do_ make copies of themselves?

Who says that you have to found a company and found a family at the same time? Why can't one do that at different times (e.g. some years between) when these goals won't be in hard conflict?

Nobody says you have to. I am proposing an alternate value system that says we don't need to claim these things are always absolutely mutually exclusive. I think it depends on the company, the parent(s), the child, the culture, the legal framework around parenting and work, and a zillion other things. Maybe you live with your extended family and it's understood that a grandparent will take on a lot of the work. Or an uncle. Or maybe your government provides extensive day care and education options. Or maybe you have an office where a child can be present.

Re: Can you fundraise in Silicon Valley while pregnant?

#52

Post by rsmsky1 » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 6:00 PM UTC

chiph wrote: post #39

rsmsky1 wrote: post #28

This is a serious question as a woman who has never been pregnant and perhaps not that knowledgable about pregnancies. Doesn't giving birth render you incapacitated for a certain period of time even if everything goes well and there's no guarantee after giving birth things will return to normal. Even in cases where one's life isn't at risk, there's a high risk of postpartum depression, etc. It seems very unfair to me…

I think you need to talk to your mom about a lot of this. ;) "Incapacitated" is the wrong word. "Sleep deprived" because junior demands he be fed a couple of times during the night is more accurate. Having an infant at the office would be very disruptive. Their cries are designed by Nature to be annoying to adults so that they get the attention they need.

I mean after giving birth isn't there a certain amount of time where one can't do much? One doesn't just give birth and hop right back up. For instance in my pilates class a woman who wasn't even visibly pregnant said she had to be careful because previously she had a miscarriage after doing pilates. So if even light exercising such as pilates, I can't imagine what more intense effort such as the stress of running a company would do to some people. But I guess it depends on the individual.

Re: Can you fundraise in Silicon Valley while pregnant?

#53

Post by rsmsky1 » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 6:02 PM UTC

ksenzee wrote: post #33

rsmsky1 wrote: post #28

This is a serious question as a woman who has never been pregnant and perhaps not that knowledgable about pregnancies. Doesn't giving birth render you incapacitated for a certain period of time even if everything goes well and there's no guarantee after giving birth things will return to normal. Even in cases where one's life isn't at risk, there's a high risk of postpartum depression, etc. It seems very unfair to me…

It depends on the pregnancy and on the birth. Some women jump right up and get back into the swing of things. Most of us need recovery time. There is no safe assumption. Speaking of assumptions, there is no reason to assume a CEO mother would have a nursery at work. She might well have a stay-at-home spouse (I do) or a parent or nanny or any number of things.

How long is the recovery time usually, I mean typically for the average woman? Also, I mentioned the nursery because in the post it said she would have a nursery at work.

Re: Can you fundraise in Silicon Valley while pregnant?

#54

Post by ksenzee » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 6:02 PM UTC

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #42

ksenzee wrote: post #31

As someone who has personally been pregnant (several times!) let me assure you that when you see a pregnant woman, you have no idea whatsoever whether she is feeling - well - ill - overwhelmed - confident - anything else because every pregnancy is different, and every woman is different, and every family is different. You cannot safely assume anything about a pregnant woman. So her pregnancy can't help you reliably j…

>because every pregnancy is different, and every woman is different, and every family is different. You cannot safely assume anything about a pregnant woman. So her pregnancy can't help you reliably judge whether she can handle being CEO. Couldn't this logic be applied to almost anything about any person and thus leave one saying that nothing can reliably be used to judge whether someone can handle being a CEO?

No, I'm simply saying that pregnancy is a less reliable guide than you might assume if you have a fixed idea of what it means to be a pregnant woman.

Re: Can you fundraise in Silicon Valley while pregnant?

#55

Post by grahamburger » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 6:03 PM UTC

cdmcmahon wrote: post #16

wolfgke wrote: post #4

Can you fundraise if you openly say that you have a time-intensive hobby that you will under no circumstances give up for working on your company? Thanks to modern contraceptive methods getting pregnant is a choice. The same as doing a time-intense hobby. If you would not finance someone who openly says that he/she will not give up his/her time-intense hobby for the company, isn't this the same as not financing peopl…

So similarly, potential investors should screen all men to make sure they and their partner aren't expecting children anytime soon? This would maybe be a defensible* position if it were applied equally, but it's not. *But actually it's not really. In today's world, with varying family types and options for care, it is possible for people to have children and give their all to a company. For many (most?) people that i…

From the perspective of the VC, yeah, it seems unfair to screen based on that - but it also seems unfair to screen based on looks or personality or accent or whatever, all of which is (probably?) happening.

From the perspective of the founder - obviously that's a personal choice. I personally wouldn't be looking to start a new venture and actively seek funding if my wife was pregnant, more than likely waiting it out for a few months won't hurt anything. Even if you are in a situation like you described, being pregnant takes up a lot of time that can't be outsourced, like pre-natal doctor visits. Also in both of my wife's pregnancies so far she's had to be rushed to the hospital during the pregnancy and spend a few days there, and on the last one she had to have a fairly intense emergency surgery. Honestly in my anecdotal experience those situations aren't uncommon.

On the other hand if I was already actively working on a startup before the pregnancy and needed to close another round before the baby came, I'd do my best make that happen.

Re: Can you fundraise in Silicon Valley while pregnant?

#56

Post by facepalm » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 6:03 PM UTC

ergothus wrote: post #35

akud wrote: post #30

In my experience, people tend to seriously underestimate the amount of work a baby takes, and the strain it adds to relationships, work life, and emotional health. I certainly did. I think it's reasonable for investors to wonder if a person's commitment won't change when they have a baby. I would advise the authors that they really can't forsee what their priorities will be like when the baby comes. It sounds trite,…

Purely for the purposes of clarity: Is that you'd hold any founder expecting a baby to the same standard, male or female? (though it is normally easier to recognize a pregnant woman than someone with a pregnant partner) Or do you see the load you describe falling primarily upon women?

Would you say it is unnatural to assume that a mother is more likely to be preoccupied with her baby than the father? If the plan is for the father to take over, why not mention it while fundraising?

Even so, there is physical strain that is likely to take a toll on the mother, which might cost a few productive months. Breastfeeding might also be an issue, waking the mother several times per night.

Re: Can you fundraise in Silicon Valley while pregnant?

#57

Post by grahamburger » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 6:07 PM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #23

cdmcmahon wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So similarly, potential investors should screen all men to make sure they and their partner aren't expecting children anytime soon? This would maybe be a defensible* position if it were applied equally, but it's not. *But actually it's not really. In today's world, with varying family types and options for care, it is possible for people to have children and give their all to a company. For many (most?) people that i…

Not to mention that one has to wonder what the point of all this is if we're going to deny people one of the most basic aspects of the human experience. I'm all for family planning, smaller families for the sake of the planet, etc. but c'mon, are we going to tell ambitious people they can pretty much _never_ have kids? Aren't these the sort of folks we should be hoping _do_ make copies of themselves?

No one suggested 'pretty much never.' Early stage fund raising is often the most stressful and time consuming part of starting a business, and pregnancy/first few months is usually the most stressful/time consuming part of having a child. Both of those are usually less than 1 year commitments. It's fair to suggest that it's not a great idea to take them on at the same time (for either parent.)

Re: Can you fundraise in Silicon Valley while pregnant?

#58

Post by ksenzee » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 6:09 PM UTC

rsmsky1 wrote: post #53

ksenzee wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the pregnancy and on the birth. Some women jump right up and get back into the swing of things. Most of us need recovery time. There is no safe assumption. Speaking of assumptions, there is no reason to assume a CEO mother would have a nursery at work. She might well have a stay-at-home spouse (I do) or a parent or nanny or any number of things.

How long is the recovery time usually, I mean typically for the average woman? Also, I mentioned the nursery because in the post it said she would have a nursery at work.

It's a pretty wide distribution, which is my whole point. Also, "recovery" can be defined in a lot of different ways. A lot of people feel pretty decent at their six-week checkup, if they're not too sleep-deprived.

Re: Can you fundraise in Silicon Valley while pregnant?

#59

Post by CalRobert » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 6:10 PM UTC

RyanZAG wrote: post #43

CalRobert wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A man can conceal the fact of his expecting a child soon. A woman, usually, is unable to do so. Both will be affected by the child, but the investor may be more likely to favour the man, which is unfair.

Would I invest in a startup with the founder about to have a baby? No. Either they will be dedicating a big part of their life in the near future to raising that baby correctly, or they will be ignoring that baby and leaving someone else to raise it. I find the second outcome even worse than the first, but I'm not going to invest in either. Now a man might be able to deceive me by simply not disclosing this while a w…

A parent has to deeply consider whether they will be able to dedicate sufficient attention to their child and their company. Some may determine they can't, some that they can with reasonable accommodation, and some will decide to give either the child or the company short shrift.

The woman, by virtue of being visibly pregnant, will have to suffer the potential investor guessing which of the three she is, while the man will not. The investor doesn't know what that person's family dynamic is.

Similarly, lots of people make incorrect assumptions about what a physically disabled person will be able to accomplish, and the person with the disability suffers their bias. I think it's up to the person with the disability, or the parent, to judge whether founding a company is appropriate.

Of course, that doesn't mean you have to fund them. After all, it's your money. All I'm saying is that there are a lot of preconceived notions we have about parenting based on very deep-seated cultural norms and biases which may not always be accurate.

Re: Can you fundraise in Silicon Valley while pregnant?

#60

Post by facepalm » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 6:11 PM UTC

rsmsky1 wrote: post #28

This is a serious question as a woman who has never been pregnant and perhaps not that knowledgable about pregnancies. Doesn't giving birth render you incapacitated for a certain period of time even if everything goes well and there's no guarantee after giving birth things will return to normal. Even in cases where one's life isn't at risk, there's a high risk of postpartum depression, etc. It seems very unfair to me…

Yes it is unfair. But society compensates by loading off some shitty jobs on men.

Maybe in the future it will be possible to grow babies in incubators. There is actually a force in action to make it likely: the attempt so save prematurely born babies. The more that technology advances, the more possible it will become to shorten pregnancies and have them carried out in the incubator instead.