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Anti-IRS Rant of Software Engineer who Today Flew Plane into IRS Building

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Re: Anti-IRS Rant of Software Engineer who Today Flew Plane into IRS Building

#131

Post by danieldon »

lallysingh wrote: post #57
blackguardx wrote: post #16

The Department of Homeland Security released a statement calling this a criminal act, not terrorism. I am confused. A few years ago everything was considered terrorism and now nothing is. This guy wasn't targeting individual people in the IRS, he was targeting the whole establishment. This is akin to the Oklahoma City bombing. If that was a terrorist incident and 9/11 was a terrorist incident, this is too. He even ha…

The FBI's definition of terrorism: The unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a Government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives. He was angry and violent, but he didn't have any objective he was trying to achieve through the act. The objective in terrorism isn't the violence, it's a means to an intended end (s…

He states in the final paragraphs that his goal is to affect change in the government and coerce the public to change the government, so he very clearly did have an objective.

Re: Anti-IRS Rant of Software Engineer who Today Flew Plane into IRS Building

#132

Post by danieldon »

grandalf wrote: post #43
CoryMathews wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree, The way I see it is that if its a criminal act against the government it because terrorism. Had he been out to kill someone in that building it would have been a criminal act. This was terrorism.

Why is it terrorism? Are you now living in terror that it will happen again?

It's terrorism because it's directly in line with 18 USC 2331:

(5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that— (A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) appear to be intended— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.

Re: Anti-IRS Rant of Software Engineer who Today Flew Plane into IRS Building

#133

Post by anateus »

blackguardx wrote: post #16

The Department of Homeland Security released a statement calling this a criminal act, not terrorism. I am confused. A few years ago everything was considered terrorism and now nothing is. This guy wasn't targeting individual people in the IRS, he was targeting the whole establishment. This is akin to the Oklahoma City bombing. If that was a terrorist incident and 9/11 was a terrorist incident, this is too. He even ha…

The US Dept of State defined "terrorism" in its Pattern of Global Terrorism report (2004) as:

"premeditated politically motivated violence, perpetrated against non-combatant targets by sub-national groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience."

I'd say it's clear he fits the government's own definition quite clearly.

Re: Anti-IRS Rant of Software Engineer who Today Flew Plane into IRS Building

#134

Post by pw0ncakes »

jrockway wrote: post #124
markpercival wrote: post #7

The site was pulled down, here's the copy of the rant: If you’re reading this, you’re no doubt asking yourself, “Why did this have to happen?” The simple truth is that it is complicated and has been coming for a long time. The writing process, started many months ago, was intended to be therapy in the face of the looming realization that there isn’t enough therapy in the world that can fix what is really broken. Need…

I really respect this guy. Once you realize your life is over, you might as well take a few other people with you.

Taking innocents down is not the way to go, but I otherwise agree. Once people realize healthcare reform is not going to happen and health insurance execs start getting knocked off over rescissions and life caps, I'll secretly be smiling. (Of course, a public option would be a better and nonviolent option.)

Re: Anti-IRS Rant of Software Engineer who Today Flew Plane into IRS Building

#135

Post by pw0ncakes »

johnrob wrote: post #96
inc wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The deck is stacked everywhere, but so what? Get over it. An engineer has the ability to improve the world by building better things without resorting to destruction.

Easier said than done. In the long run, I don't see humanity surviving if it doesn't figure out how to keep smart, disgruntled people in check.

There have been smart, disgruntled people forever. On the whole, I think they're less violent and therefore less dangerous than dumb, disgruntled people.

Re: Anti-IRS Rant of Software Engineer who Today Flew Plane into IRS Building

#136

Post by tphyahoo »

BigZaphod wrote: post #87
petercooper wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think his distaste was that when he made some mistakes, he got caught and shafted by arcane laws, yet when some richer folks deliberately committed fraud, the government barely did anything about it or rejigged the laws for them.

I'm in no way condoning fraud or corruption or entitlement or whatever, but I think the reason "the rich" often appear to get away with a lot more stuff than "the rest of us" is because, in some sense, as much as you might not like to admit it, they did somehow became rich - and that usually involves years of work and contributions to society either by the person him/herself or their family. So, in some small sense,…

they can also have more money to buy off and strong arm irs agents.

government employees are just people.

here's a book about this:

http://www.amazon.com/Perfectly-Legal-Campaign-Rich-Everybod...

Re: Anti-IRS Rant of Software Engineer who Today Flew Plane into IRS Building

#138

Post by grandalf »

danieldon wrote: post #132
grandalf wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it terrorism? Are you now living in terror that it will happen again?

It's terrorism because it's directly in line with 18 USC 2331: (5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that— (A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) appear to be intended— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the cond…

By clause A someone speeding on the highway could be considered a terrorist.

By clause B a person who writes his congressman and threatens not to vote/donate in the next election cycle is a terrorist (threat/coercion).

If the key is intent, then a poet who writes an anti-government poem is a terrorist.

Re: Anti-IRS Rant of Software Engineer who Today Flew Plane into IRS Building

#139

Post by telemachos »

pw0ncakes wrote: post #134
jrockway wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really respect this guy. Once you realize your life is over, you might as well take a few other people with you.

Taking innocents down is not the way to go, but I otherwise agree. Once people realize healthcare reform is not going to happen and health insurance execs start getting knocked off over rescissions and life caps, I'll secretly be smiling. (Of course, a public option would be a better and nonviolent option.)

Oh, for god's sake: irony. He was being i-ron-ic. Fuck.

Re: Anti-IRS Rant of Software Engineer who Today Flew Plane into IRS Building

#140

Post by telemachos »

Retric wrote: post #113
kelnos wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"He says that he wants his act of violence to initiate change - I assume in the IRS specifically, but also in American politics in general. That's the definition of terrorism." Tell that to Thomas Jefferson and George Washington...

Terrorism is a strategy not a sin, just because you happen to agree with what they are saying does not mean they are not terrorist's. Also you don't need actually kill people to induce fear, setting fire to an empty building can also count.

You use an apostrophe for possessives (and contractions). The word 'terrorists' is a plural; it's not a possessive; it's not a contraction.

Please don't use apostrophes for plurals. It makes my eyes bleed.

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