Citus Unforks from PostgreSQL, Goes Open Source • Hacker News Board

Re: Citus Unforks from PostgreSQL, Goes Open Source

#21

Post by jgreen10 » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 4:16 PM UTC

ascetone wrote: post #15

gtrubetskoy wrote: post #2

If anyone from Citus is reading this: how does this affect your business model? I remember when I asked at Strata conf a couple of years ago why isn't your stuff Open Source, the answer then was "because revenue". So what changed since then?

It doesn't. AGPL means the only people using it have to licensed the same.

Well, people use MongoDB...

AGPL only requires open sourcing any modifications you make to the software when you give users direct access to a server running the software, which seems like something you would never want to do in case of a database.

You can use database servers running AGPL software in a closed source SaaS: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-affero-gpl.en.html

Re: Citus Unforks from PostgreSQL, Goes Open Source

#22

Post by ozgune » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 4:16 PM UTC

no1youknowz wrote: post #10

This is awesome. I have experience with running a CitusDB cluster and it pretty much solved a lot of the scaling problems I was having at the time. For it to go open source now, is of huge benefit to the future projects I have. > With the release of newly open sourced Citus v5.0, pg_shard's codebase has been merged into Citus... This is fantastic, sounds like the setup process is much simpler. I wonder if they have i…

(Ozgun from Citus Data)

We're working on making Citus masterless. In all openness, we evaluated two different approaches to this in the past six months, and wrapped up the design for one. This design works well on the cloud, and we already demonstrated a working version: https://youtu.be/_nun2S6EdWo?t=411

For on-premise deployments, the primary challenge is set-up complexity. We're now prototyping one of those designs to know more: https://github.com/citusdata/citus/issues/389

We expect to share all the details and a concrete timeline in April.

Re: Citus Unforks from PostgreSQL, Goes Open Source

#23

Post by craigkerstiens » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 4:17 PM UTC

gtrubetskoy wrote: post #2

If anyone from Citus is reading this: how does this affect your business model? I remember when I asked at Strata conf a couple of years ago why isn't your stuff Open Source, the answer then was "because revenue". So what changed since then?

Hi, Craig from Citus here. We have some premium features in our Enterprise edition. Many of these are features that larger enterprises will want to pay for such as security features around roles, a tool for automated cluster resizing, and enhanced load balancing tools, and of course support.

Beyond that, we have a few other things in the works for the future that will cover other revenue models.

Re: Citus Unforks from PostgreSQL, Goes Open Source

#24

Post by sergiosgc » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 4:19 PM UTC

onRoadAgain23 wrote: post #12

Being burned before,I will never use an OS infrastructure project that has enterprise features you need to pay for. They always try to move you to paid and make the OSS version unpleasant to use over time as soon as the bean counters take over to milk you "For customers with large production deployments, we also offer an enterprise edition that comes with additional functionality"

This is the model used by many companies backing OSS. The fact that you have been burned before means the actor in that case (or cases) acted badly, not that the model is wrong.

Software isn't free to produce, and the need to make money off software isn't something companies should be ashamed of. In fact, nowadays I'm leaning towards trusting OSS with clear financial sustainability over software whose long term existence seems shaky.

Re: Citus Unforks from PostgreSQL, Goes Open Source

#25

Post by gdulli » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 4:20 PM UTC

onRoadAgain23 wrote: post #12

Being burned before,I will never use an OS infrastructure project that has enterprise features you need to pay for. They always try to move you to paid and make the OSS version unpleasant to use over time as soon as the bean counters take over to milk you "For customers with large production deployments, we also offer an enterprise edition that comes with additional functionality"

Do you often make big decisions based on extrapolation from so few data points?

I use a major open source system with enterprise features and support but don't pay for any of those options. I've used it for 3 years and it's been invaluable. No pressure to start paying for anything. Some of its premium features have actually become free over that period. But I wouldn't decide that all open source systems with premium features are safe based on that experience.

Re: Citus Unforks from PostgreSQL, Goes Open Source

#26

Post by hlandau » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 4:20 PM UTC

kodablah wrote: post #19

polskibus wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that mean that whatever connects to this database needs to be AGPL too?

No, it means if you make changes to the code and use it over a network you have to be AGPL too (think "network" as "distribution" in the GPL sense).

Nope. https://www.devever.net/~hl/agplunenforceable

Re: Citus Unforks from PostgreSQL, Goes Open Source

#27

Post by oconnore » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 4:22 PM UTC

gtrubetskoy wrote: post #18

exhilaration wrote: post #6

AGPL license if anyone's curious: https://github.com/citusdata/citus/blob/master/LICENSE

Which means there is no chance this would ever become part of PostgreSQL proper.

AGPL actually makes a lot more sense for a database (except for SQLite, which is typically redistributed).

Re: Citus Unforks from PostgreSQL, Goes Open Source

#28

Post by umur » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 4:25 PM UTC

gtrubetskoy wrote: post #2

If anyone from Citus is reading this: how does this affect your business model? I remember when I asked at Strata conf a couple of years ago why isn't your stuff Open Source, the answer then was "because revenue". So what changed since then?

Umur from Citus here. Adding to Craig's comments:

Several things have changed over the last two years that allowed us to make this happen: Most importantly, we've continued building out the product for a more broad user base, grown with more customers and users, received further funding as validation, and expanded both our team and product to offer additional revenue generating services. All put together, open sourcing Citus is something we've always wanted to do, and we are excited to continue building on it for many years to come, with the help of the community and our enterprise customers.

Re: Citus Unforks from PostgreSQL, Goes Open Source

#29

Post by no1youknowz » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 4:25 PM UTC

ozgune wrote: post #22

no1youknowz wrote: post #10

This is awesome. I have experience with running a CitusDB cluster and it pretty much solved a lot of the scaling problems I was having at the time. For it to go open source now, is of huge benefit to the future projects I have. > With the release of newly open sourced Citus v5.0, pg_shard's codebase has been merged into Citus... This is fantastic, sounds like the setup process is much simpler. I wonder if they have i…

(Ozgun from Citus Data) We're working on making Citus masterless. In all openness, we evaluated two different approaches to this in the past six months, and wrapped up the design for one. This design works well on the cloud, and we already demonstrated a working version: https://youtu.be/_nun2S6EdWo?t=411 For on-premise deployments, the primary challenge is set-up complexity. We're now prototyping one of those design…

Excellent news! Really looking forward to this one! :)

Re: Citus Unforks from PostgreSQL, Goes Open Source

#30

Post by onRoadAgain23 » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 4:27 PM UTC

gdulli wrote: post #25

onRoadAgain23 wrote: post #12

Being burned before,I will never use an OS infrastructure project that has enterprise features you need to pay for. They always try to move you to paid and make the OSS version unpleasant to use over time as soon as the bean counters take over to milk you "For customers with large production deployments, we also offer an enterprise edition that comes with additional functionality"

Do you often make big decisions based on extrapolation from so few data points? I use a major open source system with enterprise features and support but don't pay for any of those options. I've used it for 3 years and it's been invaluable. No pressure to start paying for anything. Some of its premium features have actually become free over that period. But I wouldn't decide that all open source systems with premium…

If this costed roughly a million dollars, then yes. Especially if you're locked in like with a DB. I use nginx because even though it has this mode it would be easy to replace with something else.