This is great, but I'll need an API wrapper package.
Left-pad as a service
51–60 of 269 posts
Re: Left-pad as a service
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it's less smugness (there certainly is some) and more disbelief / unfamiliarity. JS isn't the first language without great libraries (C's stdlib, `math.h`, `string.h` are good but don't have string padding functions, for example) so there's precedence going back a very long way. Most solutions involve coming up with a utilities library that contains the basic things (like a math library, or a strings library)…
Even the Java ecosystem managed to get their crap together and make the excellent Apache Commons library collection to deal with a similar situation (anaemic to useless standard library). C++ has STL and Boost. Only the PHP and JS communities seem to think that not having a solidly designed "base" library is fine (and even PHP seems to be getting better at it with 7).
The Java standard library is anemic? As in Java SE? That's rich. Java SE is an everything but the kitchen sink standard library, with functionality like collection classes, local and networking IO, windowing toolkits (more than one), database connectivity, the list goes on.
There is no language with a less anemic standard library, and Java SE is often criticized for being too large.
Re: Left-pad as a service
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
If that were true java would have started dying a few years ago, javascript frameworks wouldn't pop up every week, and most people would use shell scripts instead of build tools. This is exactly the kind of flame war stuff the guidelines seem to have tried to stop.
I think that self-regulation is a real effect... tho tempered by momentum (i.e. Java's OOP/abstractionism momentum is huge). Saying the effect exists says nothing about the effectiveness of that effect.
I was referring to:
>Without the bashing, they would become even more extreme. At least after this a lot of devs will think twice about making "micro-modules".
I don't think this "self-regulation" (I called this bashing, the guidelines call this flaming) is going to make people think twice about making micro modules. If they are useful they will be used, I think this community is better than to just bash these communities and call it 'self regulation.'
Re: Left-pad as a service
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it's less smugness (there certainly is some) and more disbelief / unfamiliarity. JS isn't the first language without great libraries (C's stdlib, `math.h`, `string.h` are good but don't have string padding functions, for example) so there's precedence going back a very long way. Most solutions involve coming up with a utilities library that contains the basic things (like a math library, or a strings library)…
Even the Java ecosystem managed to get their crap together and make the excellent Apache Commons library collection to deal with a similar situation (anaemic to useless standard library). C++ has STL and Boost. Only the PHP and JS communities seem to think that not having a solidly designed "base" library is fine (and even PHP seems to be getting better at it with 7).
PHP is absolutely the last language I thought anyone would accuse of missing standard features. PHP is massive and includes absolutely insane numbers of functions to do everything. If you can think of 3 basic, universal functions that PHP doesn't include, I'd be shocked.
Also, PHP 7 has absolutely nothing to do with standard libraries, as it doesn't really add anything in that regard.
Re: Left-pad as a service
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it's less smugness (there certainly is some) and more disbelief / unfamiliarity. JS isn't the first language without great libraries (C's stdlib, `math.h`, `string.h` are good but don't have string padding functions, for example) so there's precedence going back a very long way. Most solutions involve coming up with a utilities library that contains the basic things (like a math library, or a strings library)…
Even the Java ecosystem managed to get their crap together and make the excellent Apache Commons library collection to deal with a similar situation (anaemic to useless standard library). C++ has STL and Boost. Only the PHP and JS communities seem to think that not having a solidly designed "base" library is fine (and even PHP seems to be getting better at it with 7).
[deleted]
Re: Left-pad as a service
#56Hahaha - isn't it hysterical how everyone using npm for small reusable code pieces! Aren't they morons! How stupid of people to trust their package manager to be consistent and correct and return packages they were expecting. How stupid of people to reuse small often used functions that only do one thing well. How does everyone taking the piss intend to protect themselves from this in their OS package manager, or PPM…
The laughter is mostly the same as in the crowd points out the "new clothes" actually aren't any clothes at all. The modern, funky, hip, js "devs" told us we didn't "understand" they are doing modularity, code reuse, all those good things. Then the larger crowd realised they are publishing gazillions "modules" each of which is barely a function, some of which have horrendous runtime performance despite their wide inclusion by the crack a-team of js "devs".
Re: Left-pad as a service
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it's less smugness (there certainly is some) and more disbelief / unfamiliarity. JS isn't the first language without great libraries (C's stdlib, `math.h`, `string.h` are good but don't have string padding functions, for example) so there's precedence going back a very long way. Most solutions involve coming up with a utilities library that contains the basic things (like a math library, or a strings library)…
Even the Java ecosystem managed to get their crap together and make the excellent Apache Commons library collection to deal with a similar situation (anaemic to useless standard library). C++ has STL and Boost. Only the PHP and JS communities seem to think that not having a solidly designed "base" library is fine (and even PHP seems to be getting better at it with 7).
I don't consider C++'s Boost something to be proud about. Last time I've checked, Google forbade a significant part of it to their developers, and in my opinion rightly so. But who likes everything there should just as well understand this Node affair.
Re: Left-pad as a service
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
I use a lot of micro modules. And I think micro modules are a good idea. But this whole thing is freaking funny. You gotta acknowledge that.
I dunno; I think it's a balancing act between dependencies and code reuse. I think npm needs to not let people unpublish stuff without thought - that is where the problem is and I'm sure they are thinking about a solution to this. I think a lot of this is implying "don't use micro packages on your package manager, copy and paste code in helpers.js FTW". I've seen people advocating this as if it's a better solution th…
You think the only thing about the whole situation that is a problem is that npm let an author unpublish, rather than all the projects came to depend on so many external functions, sorry got to get the npm terminology the right, "modules"?
Re: Left-pad as a service
#59Hahaha - isn't it hysterical how everyone using npm for small reusable code pieces! Aren't they morons! How stupid of people to trust their package manager to be consistent and correct and return packages they were expecting. How stupid of people to reuse small often used functions that only do one thing well. How does everyone taking the piss intend to protect themselves from this in their OS package manager, or PPM…
> How stupid of people to reuse small often used functions that only do one thing well. This is a straw man argument. The reason so many people are criticizing left-pad et al is about the cost of adding a dependency. > trust their package manager That's exactly the problem: you're assuming that a package manager can be trusted. The network isn't reliable, packages can changed innocently or maliciously, and mistakes h…
> This is a straw man argument. The reason so many people are criticizing left-pad et al is about the cost of adding a dependency.
The cost of a dependency for a good package manager is zero, and the cost of not having that dependency is non-zero. So the problem is with NPM, not with adding a dependency.
Re: Left-pad as a service
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, Jane Street found Ocaml's standard library lacking and went on to build a better one. To me it seems much better than build a "standard library" piece-by-piece from one-function packages.
Isn't that kind of what Lodash is?
My understanding is that Lodash started as a replacement for Underscore.js and was originally fairly monolithic. Only in the most recent version do they make it so that each function is separately requirable and published. They have modularized after starting monolithically (without verifying, I also think that Lodash develops in a single repository, but publishes a bunch of modules from that one repo).