Live data from Hacker News

Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

theguardian.com

41–50 of 318 posts

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#41
post #22
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

San Francisco has very strong rent control laws that limit rent increases to below the rate of inflation, that ensure well-behaved tenants generally can hold onto an apartment for their entire life if they want, and keep paying an ever-discounted rate, and they even apply when the tenant is wealthy. But when poor tenants voluntarily move out, they're usually replaced by someone willing to pay a lot more. Also, in any…

Why the opposition to the Ellis Act? If I own a home and want to sell it, I shouldn't be limited to selling it to someone who wants to be a landlord (a very small minority of people). And if I buy a home, I shouldn't be forced to rent it to someone. If you rent a home you do not own it and you should not have any claim to what happens to it beyond the end of your current lease.

Know thy audience.

Those who own and rent to others are not looked upon favorably by those who rent. It's the Scrooge principle: A man who provides a service to those who would otherwise have no service are despised by all.

The sad thing about the opposition to the Ellis Act is how much it hinders the renting populace. By not allowing the landlord to pass along costs to the user, the user ends up losing more because the landlord is less likely to sink more monies into a facility.

Edit: If you are going to downvote me, please take the time to provide a reasoned response, I am open to hearing opposing points of view.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#42
post #29

This is a very sad occurence but I'd wish an article to read more as facts than as a sob story

Aaron Swartz commits suicide after being prosecuted for a crime that he did commit, and he's a martyr. A working class latino guy in San Francisco gets shot by the police because some white dudes didn't like the look of him, and it's basically his fault. Hacker news values.

yes. he obviously got killed because some white dude didnt like the look of him. the gun he was pointing at the cops is not related to his death.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#43
post #21

This article seems to miss some crucial details. How does a jury go from the given description of a man armed with only a Taser being not only shot to disable but absolutely destroyed and vote unanimously in the police's favor? Was the question asked to the jury more specific, did the Guardian leave something out or was the jury really racist as the Guardian implies (by listing their races)?

> being not only shot to disable but absolutely destroyed

There is no such thing as "shoot to disable" with firearms. Firearms are lethal weapons. They should only be used when deadly force is justified, and cannot reliably be used to "disable" someone apart from killing them.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#45
post #20

This police-assisted murder is a shame but I don't understand why we expect neighborhoods to remain frozen in time forever, never changing their racial or socioeconomic makeup for as long as the area exists. It's a given that neighborhoods, especially in the city, will change over time. The real issue isn't whether people who don't look like the lifelong residents will move in, it's if those new neighbors will treat…

When middle class families move out it's called *-flight. When poor families move out, it's called gentrification. Both are due to economics, some precipitated, not so much by individual bigotry but rather by self interest (the former wanting to preserve value individually in anticipation of devaluation of property, the latter get pushed out due to economics whereby its not viable to remain in a valuating neighborhoo…

1. Economics is not morally neutral, it's not a force of nature that blows through a town like a snowstorm. Economics is deliberate human activity. Economic justice and injustice is a coherent concept.

2. White flight and the creation of urban slums was a deliberate policy on the part of the government and its various partner institutions. Redlining by banks, whites only suburbs, highways built through poor and black neighborhoods, tearing up businesses and uprooting families, policing policies that targeted undesirables, etc. I find it hard to believe anyone can examine the evidence and come up with such an apolitical explanation as "self-interest".

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#46

Why would a person ever point a taser with a laser sight at uniformed police in this country? Yes this is a tragedy, but how are police supposed to react to a gun-like object pointed at them, in the heat of the moment? Cops get shot also. They are nervous on the job. As we would be, in their position. Are they supposed to react to a pointed gun with understanding and open arms? I just don't think that's practical.

Witness Testifies Alex Nieto Never Drew Weapon

http://missionlocal.org/2016/03/witness-testified-alex-nieto...

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#47

Why would a person ever point a taser with a laser sight at uniformed police in this country? Yes this is a tragedy, but how are police supposed to react to a gun-like object pointed at them, in the heat of the moment? Cops get shot also. They are nervous on the job. As we would be, in their position. Are they supposed to react to a pointed gun with understanding and open arms? I just don't think that's practical.

Cops always say that they feared for their life when they end up shooting an innocent person. If we just take their word for it, we're effectively saying that there are no circumstances under which we can legitimately criticize the police for killing someone (because the officers involved will always say that they perceived their lives to be in danger).

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#48
It is true that this case has the signs of unnecessary, racially-biased police brutality written all over it. It is also true that gentrification in SF is causing serious problems and culture clashes.

But I think it's unfair and quite a stretch to take this example and say that 'gentrification' is directly responsible for this killing. The underlying problems here are racism and police brutality, which in this case are correlated to, but an entirely separate issue from, the sudden influx of wealth.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#49
This is exactly like (minus the human tragedy) the bars that start getting noise complaints after more residential building move into their area

And somehow people moving into a certain area think that what was there before should cater to all of their demands

Really

Post reply on HN