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Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

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Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#121
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to a Trump rally and tell this to a "Black Lives Matter" supporter, I dare you.

I'm sorry, did you take that at face value? I thought it was so over the top and ridiculous that people would get that it was sarcasm, but I guess I still have a lot to learn. My bad, sometimes someone's satire is just someone else's actual thoughts...

This form of "sarcasm" is best countered with following it through to its logical conclusion.

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#122
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly likely referring to Steve Klabnik https://archive.is/BtDaA

Klabnik himself being influenced by Marxism and committed to overthrowing the democratic state, presumably through armed revolution: https://twitter.com/steveklabnik/status/514125493663436800 Communism has killed millions and millions of people yet its advocates don't get blacklisted for wrongthink. And despite Klabnik's efforts to police the ideas of tech speakers, his chosen software licenses don't prohibit use of…

He's an anarchist of some sort, just like many. Anarchists generally want to replace the violent top down nation-state with bottom-up democratic forms. Real democracy, not fake doublespeak democracy where no one feels like their voice matters.

Your post is horrifically misleading.

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given Yarvin's Jewish, my guess is he's not a white supremacist.

Who is Yarvin? How is that relevant? I am not talking about a specific person, I am talking about the argument being made for accepting everyone no matter their "belief".

Sorry, misread. Curtis Yarvin's the conference speaker.

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#124

"Include all! White supremacists, non-white... If a few people (say non-white) feel uncomfortable and don't want to come, we're OK with that 100%! Everyone should feel included! Racists, homophobes... Respect the beliefs of everyone, like believing there is a god, or that white people are superior, or believing you are being discriminated, or believing people will insult you or assault you at a whim for who you are,…

Given Yarvin's Jewish, my guess is he's not a white supremacist.

"White" is a social construct that changes with politics. Hilariously, the Irish weren't considered "white" in the US, and had to achieve whiteness. Moldbug is surrounded with white privilege in a country where blacks are regularly murdered by the state in broad daylight.

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Klabnik himself being influenced by Marxism and committed to overthrowing the democratic state, presumably through armed revolution: https://twitter.com/steveklabnik/status/514125493663436800 Communism has killed millions and millions of people yet its advocates don't get blacklisted for wrongthink. And despite Klabnik's efforts to police the ideas of tech speakers, his chosen software licenses don't prohibit use of…

He's an anarchist of some sort, just like many. Anarchists generally want to replace the violent top down nation-state with bottom-up democratic forms. Real democracy, not fake doublespeak democracy where no one feels like their voice matters. Your post is horrifically misleading.

He says the single word which best describes him is small c communist, so at best this sort of anarchism is a violent tactic, and historically a very unwise one. And would be a quickly lethal one in the well armed US.

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#126
post #56

One thing that belonging to a political fringe has taught me, is that either you decide to live your life in constant conflict, or you learn to ignore the politics of a person when it has no direct impact on a given situation, even when it to you is utterly distasteful. The latter leads to a far happier life. And often you'll find even people who hold views you find offensive can be perfectly nice people most of the…

Exactly. Orgs that don't accept "diversity of tactics" lose a lot of time to infighting.

Also know as eating your own. Just wait, there's always someone slipping on narrative.

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#127
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's an anarchist of some sort, just like many. Anarchists generally want to replace the violent top down nation-state with bottom-up democratic forms. Real democracy, not fake doublespeak democracy where no one feels like their voice matters. Your post is horrifically misleading.

He says the single word which best describes him is small c communist, so at best this sort of anarchism is a violent tactic, and historically a very unwise one. And would be a quickly lethal one in the well armed US.

It's good to be cautious when people say they believe in "democracy" or "communism". (Does democracy mean killing people for billionaires and their 4-year king? Serious democracy proponents must say things like "bottom-up democracy." Same with communism: does it mean marxism/maoism/leninism/stalinism?)

Anyway, anarchists generally strive towards communism, if that means an advanced future society where you're free from boss-subordination, and some don't have to be "poor" to scare everyone else into obedience.

And anarchists don't bomb people, unlike adherents of every other political philosophy in the last decades. Certainly the US is always bombing people. Even Bernie Sanders supports it.

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#128

If your conference will dis-invite / "de-platform" people based on their opinion about topic {foo}, you are in fact hosting a conference about {foo} , regardless of what your name, official agenda, or spokespeople say. Kudos to LambdaConf for actually keeping on focus in the face of dissent.

I mean, okay, maybe, but that just means that they'd be hosting a conference about "nazis suck" and hey, I'm okay with that. That's a message I can get behind.

So what you're saying is, you're cool with discrimination, so long as it's not against you.

So when someone decides to hold a dev conference but chooses to disallow any gay/lesbian developers, is that also totally okay?

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#129
post #2

This just in: preventing people to come to your conferences because of their beliefs is actually inadvisable and really, really difficult to make good on. I don't agree with the guy's views either, but I wouldn't disinvite him just because he thinks that way. Good on LambdaConf for letting him come anyway. Many of the quotes from this piece were shockingly powerful. I'm happy I took the time to read it.

And if you hate the guy a lot (I do) you can always go to the conference and boycott his particular talk.

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#130

It's a code of conduct. Not a code of thought.

> It's a code of conduct. Not a code of thought. Given how most codes of conduct are written there is virtually no difference between the two. If a code of conduct in a community applies everywhere its members might be on the internet or in the real world, then they are not free to say what they want publicly anymore. If one can be excluded from an opensoure community because of a totally unrelated comment on some ob…

Oh absolutely. I was referring to what it should be :)
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