Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf • Hacker News Board

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#91

Post by mcantelon » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 4:59 AM UTC

erics32 wrote: post #40

kps wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And out of curiosity, who is the firing-squad person?

Mostly likely referring to Steve Klabnik https://archive.is/BtDaA

Klabnik himself being influenced by Marxism and committed to overthrowing the democratic state, presumably through armed revolution:

https://twitter.com/steveklabnik/status/514125493663436800

Communism has killed millions and millions of people yet its advocates don't get blacklisted for wrongthink.

And despite Klabnik's efforts to police the ideas of tech speakers, his chosen software licenses don't prohibit use of his software by repressive regimes:

https://github.com/steveklabnik/request_store/blob/master/LI...

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#92

Post by TabAtkins » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 5:07 AM UTC

AKrumbach wrote: post #41

If your conference will dis-invite / "de-platform" people based on their opinion about topic {foo}, you are in fact hosting a conference about {foo} , regardless of what your name, official agenda, or spokespeople say. Kudos to LambdaConf for actually keeping on focus in the face of dissent.

I mean, okay, maybe, but that just means that they'd be hosting a conference about "nazis suck" and hey, I'm okay with that. That's a message I can get behind.

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#93

Post by TabAtkins » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 5:12 AM UTC

analognoise wrote: post #7

All this childish feelings based barbage has got to stop. No, really. People have different opinions, and are allowed to have them, even if they hurt your feelings or you disagree. Since when did this thought crime bullshit take over? Orwell would never have thought that self policing, not Big Brother and his armed henchmen, were what would do in individual thought.

Saying "People have different opinions" about nazi bullshit is kindergarten-level analysis.

Nazis are bad. Racists are bad. Claiming these "opinions" are equivalent to any other is childish and immature. Grow up and realize you live in a society with other people, and the positions you advocate for (and encourage others to advocate for) have real consequences.

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#94

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 5:20 AM UTC

jmspring wrote: post #69

The choice quote is here -- "In the end, we all converged on the same opinion: that LambdaConf should focus on the behavior of attendees, rather than their belief systems." What you believe in, in everyday society, shouldn't matter either. It is how you treat others and if you do so with politeness and respect, you should expect the same in return.

[deleted]

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#95

Post by adnzzzzZ » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 5:23 AM UTC

TabAtkins wrote: post #93

analognoise wrote: post #7

All this childish feelings based barbage has got to stop. No, really. People have different opinions, and are allowed to have them, even if they hurt your feelings or you disagree. Since when did this thought crime bullshit take over? Orwell would never have thought that self policing, not Big Brother and his armed henchmen, were what would do in individual thought.

Saying "People have different opinions" about nazi bullshit is kindergarten-level analysis. Nazis are bad. Racists are bad. Claiming these "opinions" are equivalent to any other is childish and immature. Grow up and realize you live in a society with other people, and the positions you advocate for (and encourage others to advocate for) have real consequences.

Grow up and argue with people's ideas instead of banning them from conferences unrelated to said ideas. You stop bad ideas from proliferating by showing how they're wrong, not by acting like children and banning what you don't like.

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#96

Post by kevinburke » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 5:29 AM UTC

jmspring wrote: post #69

The choice quote is here -- "In the end, we all converged on the same opinion: that LambdaConf should focus on the behavior of attendees, rather than their belief systems." What you believe in, in everyday society, shouldn't matter either. It is how you treat others and if you do so with politeness and respect, you should expect the same in return.

Curtis Yarvin is a professed fascist who has written about his belief that some races are more suited to slavery than others.

That _does_ matter; it makes large swaths of the potential talk audience (and other attendees) feel unwelcome. How can you engage in polite, respectful discussion with someone who believes that you're more suited to be a slave than a free man?

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#97

Post by jellismymind » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 5:39 AM UTC

"Include all! White supremacists, non-white... If a few people (say non-white) feel uncomfortable and don't want to come, we're OK with that 100%!

Everyone should feel included! Racists, homophobes... Respect the beliefs of everyone, like believing there is a god, or that white people are superior, or believing you are being discriminated, or believing people will insult you or assault you at a whim for who you are, or believing you belong in a community full of racist assholes. It's OK 100%, all beliefs are equal, so we shouldn't discriminate people based on that!

That would be even worse than racism if you think about it."

I'm sad and disgusted.

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#98

Post by analognoise » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 5:45 AM UTC

TabAtkins wrote: post #93

analognoise wrote: post #7

All this childish feelings based barbage has got to stop. No, really. People have different opinions, and are allowed to have them, even if they hurt your feelings or you disagree. Since when did this thought crime bullshit take over? Orwell would never have thought that self policing, not Big Brother and his armed henchmen, were what would do in individual thought.

Saying "People have different opinions" about nazi bullshit is kindergarten-level analysis. Nazis are bad. Racists are bad. Claiming these "opinions" are equivalent to any other is childish and immature. Grow up and realize you live in a society with other people, and the positions you advocate for (and encourage others to advocate for) have real consequences.

Something is "bad" as you've decided, and you're going to actively take it upon yourself to enforce consequences for those who believe in the "bad" thing.

Think about that for a minute - then remember that interracial marriages used to be banned, and a person with your operating principles would have actively made it worse for those people to enforce the norm.

But this is different! You say - missing entirely the point.

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#99

Post by ignu » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 6:00 AM UTC

davidrupp wrote: post #10

Well done, John & Co. StrangeLoop caved to the threats of a vocal minority and, to my lights, made the wrong decision. Not only the wrong decision, but for the wrong reasons. Good for you for taking this principled -- and responsible -- stance.

so who who cares if minorities are offended?

that's, uh, kind of the point.

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#100

Post by ignu » Thu, Mar 24, 2016, 6:03 AM UTC

analognoise wrote: post #7

All this childish feelings based barbage has got to stop. No, really. People have different opinions, and are allowed to have them, even if they hurt your feelings or you disagree. Since when did this thought crime bullshit take over? Orwell would never have thought that self policing, not Big Brother and his armed henchmen, were what would do in individual thought.

"i have no idea why minorities have a problem with someone telling them they're inferior being elevated and celebrated by the conference they're paying money for."