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I switched to Android after 7 years of iOS

joreteg.com

181–190 of 524 posts

Re: I switched to Android after 7 years of iOS

#181

My main exposure to Chrome web apps is Hangouts on Chrome for Mac and half the time I shut it down and choose to use the native app on my phone instead due to the poor, non-native UI and the battery life impact of Chrome. edit: the other shiny Google Web App example, Google Docs, doesn't work either. In Safari it likes to drops keys, and the last time I used it in Chrome (last autumn), it would either crash the whole…

The website about 'progressive web apps' [1] has 3 demo apps. None of them work in Firefox 43 on Linux. The apps require JavaScript but fail to use the tag to tell the user.

I've an iPad 1 on which I can install web pages as web apps by bookmarking them. If the page has the right meta tags [2], the app/page will open as fullscreen. This works fine with many web APIs e.g. WebAudio. I do not know if Android or Ubuntu phone support Web Apps in the same way.

I like this way of distributing simple applications, but take care to check the JavaScript with Closure Compiler.

[1] https://developers.google.com/web/progressive-web-apps [2] https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/AppleA...

Re: I switched to Android after 7 years of iOS

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Maintainability is the feature of unreliable equipment. I want to see a two hour debate on that by top engineers from several industries because that seems to be one of the big questions of our time in regards to product development.

If you find an engineer willing to argue in favor of non-maintainable equipment, he's not a true engineer, but some failed engineer who's moved over to management and is more interested in profitability than in users having a quality product that allows them to keep their TCO low by being able to maintain it themselves (or by an independent professional) and keep it for a long time instead of throwing it away early.…

>There is, quite simply, NO good argument in favor of non-maintainable equipment, unless your goal is to increase profits.

As a universal assertion, particularly in the realm of products intended for personal mobile use by the general population, this absolutely and utterly wrong. The fundamental core issue is that many forms of maintainability require dead matter, simple as that. Take removable vs non-removable batteries, perhaps the most classic example in portable electronics: having a removable battery requires user safe contacts that can handle repeated mechanical strain, the battery itself to have its own protective case, the device case to have a way to interface the battery and the resulting structural support and tradeoffs therein, the dimensions and shape of the battery are significantly constrained, etc. All of this boils down to significant additional stuff that isn't battery, or performing any other useful role for that matter, but rather is simply scaffolding/support infrastructure. In other words, dead matter. There is no free lunch. A removable battery fundamentally can never match the size/weight/performance matrix of a non-removable one, full stop. That's the tradeoff for being able to swap it. In this specific example there are additional potential tradeoffs too for some use-cases (it's significantly easier to have a higher degree of harsh environmental tolerance with a fully sealed system for instance).

Now, yes, there is absolutely room for reasonable disagreement about what side of the tradeoff is correct for any given application or use-case. There are times where the utility of maintainability or modularity is well worth a reduction in default performance. But there are also many cases where a higher percentage of active matter in a product is a legitimate feature to the majority of its intended users. The "No True Scotsman" fallacy you use to start your argument should have been a flag and caused you to rethink the rest of it.

Re: I switched to Android after 7 years of iOS

#183
post #70

I did the opposite and can't believe how much better my life had gotten because my iPhone is just a simple tool that I use for communications and don't think about it as a project. With Android, I always wanted to tweak silly things and run Cyanogenmod because the handset firmware was always so bad and vulnerable. On several occasions I'd bricked my phone requiring hours of recovery, or had transient failures of cell…

> On several occasions I'd bricked my phone

The article talks about how Android is a better platform to develop mobile offline web apps. You talk about how you like iOS from a user point of view. Your comment is totally unrelated to the article.

Re: I switched to Android after 7 years of iOS

#184
post #78
post #70

I did the opposite and can't believe how much better my life had gotten because my iPhone is just a simple tool that I use for communications and don't think about it as a project. With Android, I always wanted to tweak silly things and run Cyanogenmod because the handset firmware was always so bad and vulnerable. On several occasions I'd bricked my phone requiring hours of recovery, or had transient failures of cell…

These things that you mentioned, you didn't really have to do. Buy a nexus, and it's as clean as it gets. What you're saying is that you left the freedom of your device to jail yourself into simple interface...? I do agree though, that those samsung/lg/etc phone have lots crapwares + carrier crapwares.

It amazes me when Android users say that the answer to fleeing a walled garden where one company controls the hardware, the software, and the app store is by buying a phone (a Nexus) where one company provides the hardware and software and if you want to stay safe, only use their app store.

Re: I switched to Android after 7 years of iOS

#185
post #130
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cars also followed this pattern, come to think of it. I remember my dad complaining all through my youth about how the more modern that cars get, the less serviceable you are. That in new cars you need special computers just to tell them that yes, you did fix the problem and the car can stop complaining now. 10 years later ... man, if I have to even think about opening the bonnet and poking at something, I assume t…

This is absolutely not true of equipment with moving parts. It must either be maintained or treated as disposable. One of the hallmarks of commercial-grade equipment is its ease of maintenance and repair. You might not find it fun, but professionals who rely on that equipment for their livelihood understand the long-term TCO for well-maintained commercial-grade equipment vs. disposable consumer-grade equipment. Wheth…

> It must either be maintained or treated as disposable.

While I agree with this, I understand where Swizec's comment is coming from. I have a few business acquaintances who have been automotive engineers for 30-40 years now. They have an excellent idea of how their cars work. And yet, they rue that earlier, they could open any broken car and get it to run. Now, there's not much they can do to fix their own cars. Pretty much all they can do when they see a blinking light is take the car to a mechanic. The older generation has learnt that they can't fix their cars. The newer generation, unsurprisingly, doesn't even want to make the effort. The older generation could fill up their oil, change their filters, etc. Now, most people just get their mysterious machine serviced every few months. "I don't want to maintain my car" seems like a natural consequence of how cars work now.

Re: I switched to Android after 7 years of iOS

#186
post #50
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I visit far more websites in a day than I use strange new apps. Apps also don't suffer from XSS.

> I visit far more websites in a day than I use strange new apps. From the article you have to "install" the web application for any of these features to be available. > Apps also don't suffer from XSS. From websites sure, but they do from other apps.

> From the article you have to "install" the web application for any of these features to be available.

As far as the article is concerned, rendering a webpage as if it were an app takes away functionality (mainly, the ability to interact with the address bar). It does not discuss the security of web 2.0 features and it certainly does not claim that these features are only available when the webpage is pretending to be an app.

> From websites sure, but they do from other apps.

iOS uses capsiculum to isolate applications while Android uses SELinux. They aren't executing each others' code.

Re: I switched to Android after 7 years of iOS

#187
post #64
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are just some things that a web browser should not do. Exposing things that previously required escape from sandbox attacks is one of them. Why is it any different from an app doing it, though? There will be the same permission prompts etc.

A malicious app must be installed before it can run and is likely vetted by the maintainers of a package manager or App Store. A webpage running JavaScript simply runs with no inspection from anyone. Also, a malicious party usually cannot inject code into an installed app. Injecting it into a webpage you visit is far easier. Ad/tracking networks have been used for that. There is the possibility of a MITM attack if al…

Firstly, these powerful features are not available unless your site is properly (I.E. fully, absolutely nothing can be plain HTTP) protected by HTTPS. You cannot even create service worker without working HTTPS so any kind of PWA is out of question without HTTPS. Secondly, any browser that supports these capabilities also supports Content Security Policy which makes your site trivially immune to XSS and I expect that it will sooner or later become required to get access to the powerful features, on top of HTTPS. Thirdly, any powerful feature is behind a permission that is basically as hard to obtain as the consent to install an app in the first place.

Re: I switched to Android after 7 years of iOS

#188
This was a pretty interesting article, and from the title alone I had absolutely no idea this was actually a discussion about the relative merits of web apps and native apps on phones, with the main claim being that we've nearly reached the point where web apps are viable and that Android happens to support this better at the moment. I suspect many others were caught off guard too (and perhaps did not even read it), given how many comments here are just addressing the generic issue of iOS vs. Android and all the drama that comes along with someone emphatically announcing that they've at last switched to the other side.

This is why I think that rhetoric phrased in terms of one camp vs. another is often greatly counter-productive.

Re: I switched to Android after 7 years of iOS

#189
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I visit far more websites in a day than I use strange new apps. Apps also don't suffer from XSS.

Apps suffer from MUCH bigger security issues than XSS. And most modern browsers are immune to XSS.

> Apps suffer from MUCH bigger security issues than XSS.

It depends on the attack surface. However, something like WebBlueTooth has only one-click/tap authorization protecting it at best against software that is already downloaded and executing. Mis-taps/clicks are trivial. You do not have that with a new application that a website wants you to download. You also tend not to have installed software updated without your consent after you first obtained it (with the trend to use Javascript to add functionality to iOS apps being the glaring exception), but websites can be updated at any time, by both the web developer and by black hats who hack into it.

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