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School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

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Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#91

Post by Confusion »

dbz wrote: post #42
Daniel_Newby wrote: post #5

If this violated child pornography laws, we will get the remarkable outcome that a school system is not allowed within 2500 feet of a school. So it's not all bad!

Everyone who even knew about the computer webcam spying should go to prison. The fact that this could have been used as spying for child pornography- should be treated as an attempt of attaining child pornography.

No it shouldn't. As long as there is no indication that there were sexual motives, than no accusations of sexual motives should be made. The invasion of our rights in the name of our children has gone far enough. You shouldn't gratuitously say anything that encourages child pornography hysteria. You are just saying it because it serves your point that these guys should be punished severely. However, not even these guys deserve to be branded as child pornographers if they aren't.

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#92

Post by motters »

bgraves wrote: post #25

This was part of a program on PBS called Digital Nation. The show was very interesting, and there's a section where the school IT administrator demonstrates his ability to pull up a students laptop ... and working webcam. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/digitalnation/learni... The relevant part starts at about 4:35. "They don't even realize that we are watching. I always like to mess with them and take a pict…

I've seen a lot of stuff on the web, but that video is truly shocking. The complete lack of concern for the privacy/dignity either of the children or their families and the complacent attitude of the IT guy is really disheartening to see. I think it shows how organizations can become enchanted with the technology, whilst forgetting some of the most basic human values.

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#93

Post by Confusion »

steveklabnik wrote: post #29
ErrantX wrote: post #22

The real question is: where is the criminal investigation? This breaks so many laws it's not funny. And the kid originally being disciplined at school for something he did at home . It's the first time for a while news like this has made me feel physically sick! Lock them up :(

> And the kid originally being disciplined at school for something he did at home. This is pretty standard practice. Schools have all kinds of 'code of conduct' things that can get you in trouble for things that didn't happen on school grounds.

This is pretty standard practice.

In the US. Certainly not in Europe.

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#94

Post by CWuestefeld »

cduan wrote: post #59
Daniel_Newby wrote: post #5

If this violated child pornography laws, we will get the remarkable outcome that a school system is not allowed within 2500 feet of a school. So it's not all bad!

There doesn't appear to be a claim in the complaint regarding any child pornography laws yet. But who knows--that may change if new photos turn up during discovery. Here's some thoughts on the Fourth Amendment illegal search claim, at least: There is this 2001 case, Kyllo v. United States, that held it illegal for the police to use a thermal scanner to detect heat lamps in a guy's house (the heat lamps being used to…

There is this 2001 case, Kyllo v. United States, that held it illegal for the police to use a thermal scanner to detect heat lamps

I don't think that's precisely correct. It's not illegal -- the cops aren't going to be sent to jail. It just makes the evidence inadmissible.

And that subtlety makes all the difference in this application.

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#95

Post by anamax »

Confusion wrote: post #91
dbz wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone who even knew about the computer webcam spying should go to prison. The fact that this could have been used as spying for child pornography- should be treated as an attempt of attaining child pornography.

No it shouldn't. As long as there is no indication that there were sexual motives, than no accusations of sexual motives should be made. The invasion of our rights in the name of our children has gone far enough. You shouldn't gratuitously say anything that encourages child pornography hysteria. You are just saying it because it serves your point that these guys should be punished severely. However, not even these gu…

> As long as there is no indication that there were sexual motives, than no accusations of sexual motives should be made.

That's not how child porn laws work.

Laws should always be enforced most harshly against govt agents and folks who actually advocate the laws in question.

Govt employment is not a right and if someone is unwilling to accept heightened scrutiny, they can work for someone who is willing to accomodate that preference.

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#96

Post by DanielBMarkham »

Speaking of school's control and observation of kids not on their premises, wasn't there a case a while back where a kid skipped school and later appeared on TV holding a "Bush sucks!" protest sign? My memory is fuzzy on this, but it seems like the courts upheld the right of the school to punish the kid? Anybody got a link for that case?

Extrapolating from what I don't know into things I can't even speculate on (I love the internet), what if these administrators saw the same kids engaging in obscene political action, like defiling election signs or something? Or witnessed a murder? If I remember correctly, even police who are authorized to eavesdrop are bound by all kinds of rules about what they can observe and what they're forced to take action on.

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#97

Post by akadien »

johns wrote: post #53
akadien wrote: post #46

Wait till a school administrator gets the bright idea of doing the same thing on school-issued iPhones and other mobile devices.

Schools are issuing iPhones?

Meh. Maybe I meant iPods. Too eager to get my flippant comment posted, I guess.

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#98

Post by olefoo »

rdtsc wrote: post #31
mml wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you bet your ass it's ok to spy on kids; I made em, i can spy on em (sorry kiddos). the school district on the other hand, is not allowed to venture onto my lawn, much less into my house.

Unless the courts take the approach that the school is 'in loco parentis' ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_loco_parentis ), that is they have similar rights to when the kids are under their supervision. They can claim that since laptops are not tracked via GPS so it is hard to know where the kids are (at home or at school). So they can just brush this off as an 'oops' or demand that all laptops have tracking chips i…

And where was the IT leader for the school in all of this? This is where professional responsibility has to come into play. He or she has a responsibility to be aware of what's right and wrong, and installing and activating remote spycam software is so very definitely wrong; I don't even have the words.

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#99

Post by cx01 »

ErrantX wrote: post #89
cx01 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it easy to disprove? The trojan could delete itself after downloading CP. Should be impossible to reconstruct what happened exactly.

Of course there is an upper limit to how provable it is. But that is fairly elaborate malware your describing (because if that is all it did it should be fairly apparent - it also has to fake fairly extensive use as well). Mostly it is very easy to see the CP activity (dont forget were not just talking about images on the HDD here but actual activity indicative of behavior). If it were downloaded all together, with n…

I don't think it would be hard. Just create a Windows application that hosts an IE ActiveX control and hides its main window. Or even better: When the user's screen saver is running, start a full-blown IE window and control it through Window messages. The traces would be identical to the case in which the user used IE himself.

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#100

Post by lambda »

anamax wrote: post #95
Confusion wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it shouldn't. As long as there is no indication that there were sexual motives, than no accusations of sexual motives should be made. The invasion of our rights in the name of our children has gone far enough. You shouldn't gratuitously say anything that encourages child pornography hysteria. You are just saying it because it serves your point that these guys should be punished severely. However, not even these gu…

> As long as there is no indication that there were sexual motives, than no accusations of sexual motives should be made. That's not how child porn laws work. Laws should always be enforced most harshly against govt agents and folks who actually advocate the laws in question. Govt employment is not a right and if someone is unwilling to accept heightened scrutiny, they can work for someone who is willing to accomodat…

No, laws should be applied equally to everyone.

You should not be punished more harshly because you are a "government agent." What does your postal clerk have to do with some idiot congressman who passed too strict a law on child porn?

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