Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC • Hacker News Board

Re: Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC

#131

Post by kbenson » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 4:27 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #64

slantyyz wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The implication being that in the last 5+ years the PC industry has failed to offer 600 million users a compelling reason to upgrade Compelling reason why I had to upgrade my iPhone 3G, iPhone 4 and original iPad after less than 3 years? Painfully slow and unusable. Well if the compelling reason to upgrade is "painfully slow and unusable", then maybe a >= 5 year old PC that still works isn't a bad thing. If I'm no…

Compelling reason why I had to upgrade my iPhone 3G, iPhone 4 and original iPad after less than 3 years? Painfully slow and unusable. Exactly. Upgrading is a cost; not just money but also time. I upgraded my 1st gen iPad's OS exactly once (5 -> 6 I think) and it was a completely horrendous experience, involving PC iTunes. The main driver of PC upgrades, apart from improved games, is bloat and the slow deterioration o…

> nor bogus SaaS rentalware like Adobe Creative Cloud

Eh, as SaaS goes, at least Adobe's has some compelling reasons to use it, the biggest one being cost. Sure, you'll pay more in the long run, but try telling someone trying to start out a small business that they should shell out multiple thousands of dollars for Adobe CS, or multiple hundreds of dollars per individual program if buying a la carte. That's the situation my Fiance was in, and I was finally able to move her to Adobe's SaaS offering and off of pirated Adobe CS because $40/mo is much easier to swallow than the prior cost. That they offer tech support, she can easily migrate computers, and there's no virus' bundled with the installer are all good selling points when coming from that side.

Re: Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC

#132

Post by paperpunk » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

markatkinson wrote: post #118

mikehearn wrote: post #36

I interpreted that comment as a jab at the PC industry. The implication being that in the last 5+ years the PC industry has failed to offer 600 million users a compelling reason to upgrade. Isn't that the correct interpretation, considering the whole point of bringing that up is because they're positioning a new device intended to replace the PC? I seriously doubt it's intended to mean (to quote the article) "LOL poo…

Agreed that the "LOL poor people" is probably not the intention however I am sure the internet will have a field day with it. With that in mind it will likely generate some really interesting discussions around the quality and longevity of Apples products. Imho smart phone tech is plateauing and I get the feeling Apple is going to struggle more and more to justify the prices they charge for iPhones and other products…

Couldn't you make the opposite argument from the same starting point?

That as the technology plateaus, and the upgrade cycle becomes longer, there's much more reason to spend more on a handset because you're not going to feel like replacing it a year later?

Spending a bit more doesn't seem like an issue for something that will last 4/5 years.

Your friend may say spending more than an R3500 is an unnecessary luxury on a cellphone. I say that the cellphone is the single most important piece of technology I own and so isn't the area I want to be stingy on.

Apple isn't necessarily the best choice even with that in mind, but that's a separate argument.

Re: Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC

#133

Post by orbitingpluto » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

bitJericho wrote: post #59

aetherson wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that it means "LOL poor people" either. But I do think that it's bullshit marketing talk. Apple is perfectly happy to be proud (rightly, I think) of the enduring utility of older pieces of Apple hardware -- but if some other company's hardware continues to be perfectly serviceable for 5 years, that's sad? Also, if you have a 5 year old PC that's genuinely not serving your needs any more, sure, you could…

Bought a dual CPU workstation with 12gb ram and two quad core 12 mb cache xeons for under 400 bucks. It's about 5 year old tech and its awesome!

Totally there. If your electricity is cheap, it's an awesome deal. Since, oh about, 2009, there are a lot of choices that are akin to buying a '57 Chevy.

Re: Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC

#134

Post by incepted » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

mikehearn wrote: post #36

I interpreted that comment as a jab at the PC industry. The implication being that in the last 5+ years the PC industry has failed to offer 600 million users a compelling reason to upgrade. Isn't that the correct interpretation, considering the whole point of bringing that up is because they're positioning a new device intended to replace the PC? I seriously doubt it's intended to mean (to quote the article) "LOL poo…

> I seriously doubt it's intended to mean (to quote the article) "LOL poor people".

He didn't mean to but this is the general reflection of the culture that permeates Apple as a company and the bubble in which they live.

I remember once one of my wealthy friends saying "I don't understand why people live in one bedroom apartments". I stared at her for a solid minute to determine if she was joking but no, she was dead serious. She genuinely did not understand. She was born and raised in a wealthy family and she just had lost track of the rest of the world.

Schiller and the Apple execs have similar blinders on and once in a while, the mask drops in a public speech because the speech writers and their proofreaders have similar blinders on and didn't realize the enormity of the implication.

Re: Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC

#135

Post by Merad » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #28

johansch wrote: post #8

I built a desktop PC almost exactly five years ago. - Intel Core i5 2500K, 3.3 GHz, quad-core (200 USD) - 8B (2x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz C9 (100 USD) - 120GB 2.5" SSD Intel X25-M G2 (200 USD) - GeForce GTX 460 1GB (200 USD) It's sad that a full five years later, CPU performance/USD has barely moved at all. RAM is half the cost now, SSDs a quarter the cost. Not sure about how GPUs have developed? (Edit: The GTX 960 which tod…

You represent the 5% of PC consumers. The average person goes to Walmart/Bestbuy/BJ's/Staples and spends $475 on some shitbox laptop. The 25th percentile user (ie. millions of people) probably spent $275-325. That average person who bought that average PC in 2011 has an aging HP/Dell/Asus laptop with a failing battery, $30 Celeron or AMD processor, 2GB memory, integrated graphics, a 500GB 5400rpm disk and integrated…

Eh, probably more like the top 40-50%. All the people (and yes, there are more than a few of them) who bu anything better than the cheapest POS Walmart laptop. I built a computer for my parents at the beginning of 2012 - entirely lower midrange compnents - AMD CPU with built-in graphics, 4 GB RAM, etc. IIRC the total cost including monitor was a bit over $500.

The only thing wrong with that computer today is that it has a 7200 RPM mechanical hard drive. Even then it's not slow, it's just noticeably slower than a SSD.

Re: Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC

#136

Post by jxy » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

sudosushi wrote: post #3

As someone sitting at a nearly 5 year old Macbook Pro, I took the comment as an off hand throwaway. I understand not liking the comment, but this isn't news. A company thinks everyone should be using the latest of their products. Oh no.

As someone typing on a 2011 Macbook Air, I really don't like that comment. What's wrong with using a 5 year old computer? Fortunately their hardwares still last for you and me. I had to send in mine for repair twice. Once for the keyboard and the other for the touchpad. If the company is pushing people to dump their 5 year old hardware, I'm going to be a little nervous to buy their new product.

Re: Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC

#137

Post by slantyyz » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 4:31 PM UTC

paulmd wrote: post #113

agumonkey wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an odd fact about markets. You have the high rate of progress phase where technological advances almost sell themselves. I didn't have to wonder for long to want a Pentium 200 MMX instead of my Pentium 75. Nowadays it's really tough to convince someone naturally and strongly. They have to push for new 'needs' (4K ?) or allow for crapware and subpar software to trigger the religious reflex newer = better = fast…

4K monitors are a little marginal. 27" is really too small, most people need some DPI enlargement to feel comfortable. The bigger panels increase significantly in price, but I think 32-36" would probably be about right in terms of ppi. 27" 1440P monitors are fantastic though, they strike the perfect balance between resolution, size, and price. If you're used to 22-24" monitors I really encourage you to give it a try,…

Here's my experience with 27" 4K monitors.

I originally planned on getting a single 32" 4K IPS monitor, but got tired of waiting for it to come out in Canada.

I test drove a few smaller 28 4K screens in the local computer store and realized that I could easily live with 1:1 on a 28". I ended up getting a Dell 27" 4K monitor because I wanted an IPS panel.

I realize I'm in a very small minority of users who can use 4K with no scaling at 27" -- I use a standing desk and I have single vision computer glasses for the distance my monitors are away from my face.

When I first got the 27" 4K monitor, I was in awe of the glorious real estate it afforded me. That awe didn't last long, however, because I ended up wanting even more real estate. So I bought a second, matching 4K monitor, and it's great. It's like having 8x1080p monitors.

I would love the additional real estate from a third and fourth monitor (i.e., 8K equivalent) but things would get harder at that point because of neck movements, stand availability and the fact that I have a small form factor PC with no room for additional video cards.

Re: Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC

#138

Post by drdeadringer » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 4:31 PM UTC

slantyyz wrote: post #46

mikehearn wrote: post #36

I interpreted that comment as a jab at the PC industry. The implication being that in the last 5+ years the PC industry has failed to offer 600 million users a compelling reason to upgrade. Isn't that the correct interpretation, considering the whole point of bringing that up is because they're positioning a new device intended to replace the PC? I seriously doubt it's intended to mean (to quote the article) "LOL poo…

>> The implication being that in the last 5+ years the PC industry has failed to offer 600 million users a compelling reason to upgrade Compelling reason why I had to upgrade my iPhone 3G, iPhone 4 and original iPad after less than 3 years? Painfully slow and unusable. Well if the compelling reason to upgrade is "painfully slow and unusable", then maybe a >= 5 year old PC that still works isn't a bad thing. If I'm no…

I've pretty much gotten to the point of upgrading my hardware only when continuing to use my current hardware is more painful.

Is this slowness//clunkiness liveable for what I'm doing? When the answer is "no" more days than "yes", it's time for me to go shopping. Until then, I'm ok with typing on something you might find on the Millennium Falcon.

Re: Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC

#139

Post by curt15 » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 4:32 PM UTC

dijit wrote: post #115

cheald wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yup. Clock-for-clock, Skylake is about 10-20% faster than Sandy Bridge Sorry, can you elaborate on this? Is Skylake somehow performing multiple instructions per core per clock cycle somehow?

Added hardware instructions for common software instruction combinations taking load of the CPU itself and offloading it into a mini-ASIC. Like AES, Floating point, h.264 etc;

Intel CPUs have had special AES instructions for a long time.

Re: Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC

#140

Post by 21 » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 4:33 PM UTC

kzrdude wrote: post #68

wrong_variable wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. What apple is saying today is something that it has always said - but its only recently that people in america are too poor to buy american products. I grew up around windows and linux, and whenever I tell that in a job interview - people think I am not being serious since "real developers" use mac. In my first software job - I was told to abandon my personal cheap linux and use the company's brand new expensive…

> Also you will notice this in poorer countries - a strong ecosystem for recycling exists everywhere outside of the US/UK. When I brought my first bike in the UK, I wanted to repair it and was told to just ditch it and get a new one ! I'd call the US, UK poor for lacking a system of recycling. And indeed in many ways they are poorer than the most well functioning societies.

Maybe OP wanted to say "reuse/refurbish" instead of "recycle". In less rich countries there are thriving second hand markets, online and offline. Many sell the obsolete hardware they no longer need instead of throwing it away.