That awkward moment when Apple mocked good hardware and poor people • Hacker News Board

Re: That awkward moment when Apple mocked good hardware and poor people

#411

Post by rorykoehler » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 4:08 PM UTC

mangeletti wrote: post #409

waspleg wrote: post #41

I completely agree with the author of the article. Apple is the real-world incarnation of the economic premise of Huxley's "A Brave New World". This was just the mask dropping for a second to pander to the faithful. I'd like to add, as someone who works at K12 public high school, that I've seen the reality of the article played out. My building is 100% free lunch, most are extremely poor, and yet there is a sizable n…

> Why? Because they don't want to look poor or be thought of as such. This is not necessarily correct. A lot of people still regard iPhones and other high-end smartphones as being something of a luxury. They are a luxury when you compare them to what we need for survival (food, water, shelter), but there is something to be said about a small rectangular device that, once purchased, can provide nearly free: 1. enterta…

Smartphone != iphone

I spent $250 on mine and it is does everything meaningful that an iphone does. Iphone is definitely a luxury even among smartphones.

Re: That awkward moment when Apple mocked good hardware and poor people

#412

Post by joesmo » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 4:08 PM UTC

"Maybe Apple really does find the idea of hardware that can function for five years “sad” and funny these days."

Maybe? Is there even a question anymore? If there is, one only needs to look at the designs Apple has been pushing for the last seven years: un-upgradable, mass-consumer grade quality products. If anything has been crystal clear from the disappearance of all upgradeable parts in all their products over the last few years and their constant events (at least 3 a year) is that they want you to buy new shiny stuff and they don't care about supporting the old stuff. Apple will support you for one year or up to two or three (depending on product) if you pay a few hundred extra for Apple care. The fact that there is no Applecare plan longer than two years for iPads and three years for laptops should be another crystal clear indicator that their product aren't meant to last and be used that long.

That being said, at least with their laptops (haven't used the new Macbook) the hardware quality is generally very high (except for the trackpads). I hope it continues to stay this way.

Re: That awkward moment when Apple mocked good hardware and poor people

#413

Post by JohnBooty » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 4:08 PM UTC

CaptainZapp wrote: post #389

JohnBooty wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad you posted that: everybody should read it and truly try to put themselves in those shoes. I do not understand the fact that you seem to have posted it as a rebuttal to my post. My post was meant as a criticism of another indignity that the poor often face: other peoples' (often baseless, and always condescending) criticisms of their financial decisions. Their criticisms often carry the subtext that poor peop…

Thanks for the clarification. I think it was mostly this statement : Assuming a lifespan of 3 years, the cost difference between a $600 phone and a $300 phone is barely more than $0.25 per day that triggered my response. Rereading it: you're right. I'm still glad to have posted the link :) What really riles me up is that a lot of people have no clue how expensive it actually is to be poor and how hard is it to break…

I see what you mean. And you're right: not everybody has an extra $0.25/day or $1.75/week for a nicer phone. $1.75/week for some people is the difference between having oatmeal for breakfast and not having breakfast.

That is an excellent, excellent link. And this:

> What really riles me up is that a lot of people have no clue how expensive it actually is to be poor

Yes! This is the one thing I wish everybody could understand about being poor. Not only do you have less money, almost everything is more expensive.

"Simple" things like buying food when it's on sale and freezing it for later aren't possible if you don't have a second freezer, or even a first freezer, or if you're in danger of having your power turned off, or if you live in a terrible apartment where the power goes off for reasons not even in your control.

Heck, a lot of people can't even clip supermarket coupons because they don't have access to a supermarket. (For anybody scratching their heads at this, Google "food desert")

Or another great example:

Cost of a $150,000 home if you're rich and don't need a mortgage: $150,000 (or $0 in the long run, because you can get that money back when you sell it)

Cost of a $150,000 home if you need a mortgage: $500,000+

(Not that the truly poor can even obtain mortgages, but it's a good illustration of how much cheaper things can get as you go further and further up the income scale)

Re: That awkward moment when Apple mocked good hardware and poor people

#414

Post by incongruity » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 4:10 PM UTC

smarx007 wrote: post #180

rileymat2 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure if I was suddenly without money, the iPhone would be what I would want to give up. The utility of the device is incredible: Mapping. Phone. Internet. Email. Alarm Clock. Calendaring. Photography. If anything we should work to get smart phones in the hands of the poor. It would be a great way to improve their lives for a somewhat modest cost. I am not sure it is all for looks. Maybe we could quibble abou…

First, let's get the internet part clear. Mobile internet is consistently more expensive that fixed line (in xUSSR at least). And as somebody with more than 1 degree, I can tell you that you don't need an iphone map, phone, alarm, or camera functionality to make your life better, while internet and email on a mobile device is counterproductive. If you really want to save money and get better, go buy a core 2 duo desk…

As someone who has done work with folks in this demographic, I find this sentiment to be a bit counterproductive/missing the experience of lower income individuals in a meaningful way.

It is definitely the case, for many people (especially teens and 20 somethings) that smartphones are viewed as essentials – but more than that, mobile devices are becoming the perceived norm – if you don't have one, you're weird. There is such a stigma around "being poor" and many low-income folks are incredibly mindful of that.

Moreover, they know what "good" looks like and they want that experience – and like it or not, having a smartphone is becoming more and more essential for full access to daily life. It's not fully there but there is definitely a fast-moving trend and the evidence is everywhere – you just may not be as mindful if you're not lacking a smartphone.

Lastly, while mobile internet is more expensive, it's a false dichotomy to assume they're strict substitutes. Now consider other details – like ease of purchase – cellphone shops are common, even in inner city neighborhoods, when compared to places that sell actual computers. When you put it all together, it makes clear sense why mobile internet is booming and becoming a first-choice option in low-income communities even if you can claim it's more expense. This is not an isolated trend. Being poor is expensive – this has definitely been written about, at length, elsewhere, but I can dig up links if needed.

Re: That awkward moment when Apple mocked good hardware and poor people

#415

Post by vehementi » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 4:10 PM UTC

rockshassa wrote: post #12

I just can't bring myself to feel the author's anger, in any capacity. He wants to position this as a jab against those who build their own PCs, but that is utterly irrelevant. What percentage of those 600 million five-year-old PCs do you really think are being thoughtfully maintained by modders? Does the author realize that most people do not want the responsibility of maintaining their own hardware? Or that they do…

If granny is terrified about an upgrade in Windows versions then it is sure as shit stupid to get her an iOS device.

Re: That awkward moment when Apple mocked good hardware and poor people

#416

Post by asmosoinio » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 4:10 PM UTC

mangeletti wrote: post #409

waspleg wrote: post #41

I completely agree with the author of the article. Apple is the real-world incarnation of the economic premise of Huxley's "A Brave New World". This was just the mask dropping for a second to pander to the faithful. I'd like to add, as someone who works at K12 public high school, that I've seen the reality of the article played out. My building is 100% free lunch, most are extremely poor, and yet there is a sizable n…

> Why? Because they don't want to look poor or be thought of as such. This is not necessarily correct. A lot of people still regard iPhones and other high-end smartphones as being something of a luxury. They are a luxury when you compare them to what we need for survival (food, water, shelter), but there is something to be said about a small rectangular device that, once purchased, can provide nearly free: 1. enterta…

But all of those are available in a 50$ android phone as well. Arguably not as usable, but around 100$ the difference to an iPhone at 7x the price is not that much.

Re: That awkward moment when Apple mocked good hardware and poor people

#417

Post by JohnBooty » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 4:13 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #316

JohnBooty wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how people generally only make these criticisms of "poor" peoples' purchases. You never hear people criticizing some middle-class guy for spending $27,000 on a Honda Accord instead of paying for a year of his kid's college education.

You do hear that, if you listen to the right people.

Admittedly, I hear that criticism of middle-class purchases quite a bit, among friends and family.

But when it comes to criticism of strangers, I just never hear it directed at the middle-class stranger in his Honda Accord. It's always directed at the lower-economic-class stranger and his $100 sneakers.

Re: That awkward moment when Apple mocked good hardware and poor people

#418

Post by mangeletti » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 4:13 PM UTC

asmosoinio wrote: post #416

mangeletti wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why? Because they don't want to look poor or be thought of as such. This is not necessarily correct. A lot of people still regard iPhones and other high-end smartphones as being something of a luxury. They are a luxury when you compare them to what we need for survival (food, water, shelter), but there is something to be said about a small rectangular device that, once purchased, can provide nearly free: 1. enterta…

But all of those are available in a 50$ android phone as well. Arguably not as usable, but around 100$ the difference to an iPhone at 7x the price is not that much.

It's not important that it's 7x better. It's important that the increase in productivity (or enjoyment, etc.) is enough to justify the $600 difference in price over a (perhaps) 24 month period (e.g., do you get ~$1/day more out of it).

Not to mention, a 2 year old iPhone will probably sell for $250-350, while a $100 smartphone will probably sell for $25 after 2 years. This makes the difference more like $300. So, "Do you get ~$0.50/day more out of an iPhone than you do out of a $100 smartphone?" becomes the new question.

Re: That awkward moment when Apple mocked good hardware and poor people

#419

Post by schnide05095 » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 4:14 PM UTC

rorykoehler wrote: post #411

mangeletti wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why? Because they don't want to look poor or be thought of as such. This is not necessarily correct. A lot of people still regard iPhones and other high-end smartphones as being something of a luxury. They are a luxury when you compare them to what we need for survival (food, water, shelter), but there is something to be said about a small rectangular device that, once purchased, can provide nearly free: 1. enterta…

Smartphone != iphone I spent $250 on mine and it is does everything meaningful that an iphone does. Iphone is definitely a luxury even among smartphones.

Correct. But look at who has a corner on the advertising. iPhones are still seen as another class above by many, if not most, people.

Edit: Forgot to say, that by comparison, Android/Windows/whatever smartphones are relatively unknown.

Re: That awkward moment when Apple mocked good hardware and poor people

#420

Post by kybernetikos » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 4:14 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #199

kybernetikos wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the things my family used an original ipad for stopped working after a very short amount of time. It is now essentially garbage that I can't bring myself to throw away.

And my wife and I still use our iPad 2 without issue aside from the noticeable sluggishness switching apps or updating. Anecdotes!

Not sure what your point is. My point was that the original iPad was nearly unusable in less than 3 years. This is not an anecdote, it's a simple matter of fact.

The original iPad was launched in mid 2010. In September 2012 Apple released iOS 6, which didn't run on the original iPad. Shortly afterward, the apps we used all required a forced update to their iOS6 version (which of course didn't work) and it became a doorstop. YouTube lasted a little longer than most, but eventually it stopped working too.

It's quite possible that the iPad 2 you mention has had a longer life than the original iPad, but this in no way diminishes the fact that the original iPad, a not inexpensive piece of hardware was useless for most purposes after a little more than 2 years (assuming you bought it on release, which I did not).