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School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

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Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#71

Post by ErrantX »

JshWright wrote: post #63
ErrantX wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a violation of various computer misuse laws. Get him to file a police complaint.

How is that a violation? I assume the school actually owns the laptop, and the monitoring is disclosed up front.

Intercepting communications is definitely illegal.

They can certainly have limits on what the laptop could be used for etc. and perhaps filter traffic. Possibly even track the URL's (depending on what the contract says). But reading personal emails will definitely be illegal.

When I go into a company to investigate one of their employee's you have to be very careful not to go near any personal email etc.

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#72

Post by Quarrelsome »

ugh wrote: post #44
Quarrelsome wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading their emails is okay? WTF? These are people we are talking about. Inexperienced people true, but still people!

That's the reason why I wrote "But only up to a point."

Up to what point exactly? I don't see how reading someone else's email is suddenly okay with any kind caveat.

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#73

Post by [deleted] »

f_sav wrote: post #62
bgraves wrote: post #25

This was part of a program on PBS called Digital Nation. The show was very interesting, and there's a section where the school IT administrator demonstrates his ability to pull up a students laptop ... and working webcam. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/digitalnation/learni... The relevant part starts at about 4:35. "They don't even realize that we are watching. I always like to mess with them and take a pict…

So that'd mean some schools (or is it the same one?) did such spying without even trying to conceal it. That it hadn't occurred to students to cover the camera with something is a bit troubling too (either they don't realize the possibility/risk or they don't care). I may sound paranoid, but having integrated cameras in almost every electronic device around, with no easy physical (vs. software) way of blocking it som…

[deleted]

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#74

Post by cgranade »

f_sav wrote: post #62
bgraves wrote: post #25

This was part of a program on PBS called Digital Nation. The show was very interesting, and there's a section where the school IT administrator demonstrates his ability to pull up a students laptop ... and working webcam. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/digitalnation/learni... The relevant part starts at about 4:35. "They don't even realize that we are watching. I always like to mess with them and take a pict…

So that'd mean some schools (or is it the same one?) did such spying without even trying to conceal it. That it hadn't occurred to students to cover the camera with something is a bit troubling too (either they don't realize the possibility/risk or they don't care). I may sound paranoid, but having integrated cameras in almost every electronic device around, with no easy physical (vs. software) way of blocking it som…

As opposed to pocket electronics with integrated microphones? Think of all the embarassment that has occured due to pocket dialing, and now consider if that had been intentional. It's harder to block a microphone than a camera lens, too, and less obvious where the microphone is.

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#75

Post by c3o »

blhack wrote: post #70
holdenc wrote: post #60

I wonder if these laptops had a recording light by the camera like most. Wouldn't this have been an immediate tip-off to everyone? Disabling the recording light (if this happened) would have required some effort as well...

Uhh...which laptops have a recording light on them? Mine certainly does not.

Macs

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#76

Post by ErrantX »

aplusbi wrote: post #68
ErrantX wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> reople have been arrested for having malware download child porn without the user's authorization or knowledge Do you have a citation for that, out of interest. It's considered something of a myth within LE and I wasn't aware a case like that actually existed.

Here is one such case: http://www.scmagazineus.com/malware-to-blame-for-porn-on-sta... I also recall a case of a teacher whose school computer had malware that ended up displaying porn in the classroom who was arrested and faced up to 40 years in jail. I'm pretty sure she was acquitted.

Interesting. Do you know how/if I can get hold of the court documents relating to that?

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#77

Post by cgranade »

JshWright wrote: post #58
cgranade wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a "let them eat cake" attitude. A few hundred dollars is a lot to come by for some people, especially at that age.

I guess that attitude comes from the fact that I've always had to buy my own cake in life. My parents provided me with food, clothing, a place to live, and other "necessities". They never bought me a laptop, a cell phone, a car, or any of the dozens of other things that teenagers seem to feel entitled to these days.

Fine, and good for you. Opportunities aren't uniform, though, and there are students who don't even have those necessities you mention, and have to work for those. I likewise was fortunate to have the opportunity to make my own money at a young age, and so I don't begrudge you that. What I take exception to is the implication that all students have such opportunities, are aware of them, and enjoy the familial stability required to exploit opportunities as they arise.

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#78

Post by f_sav »

cgranade wrote: post #74
f_sav wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that'd mean some schools (or is it the same one?) did such spying without even trying to conceal it. That it hadn't occurred to students to cover the camera with something is a bit troubling too (either they don't realize the possibility/risk or they don't care). I may sound paranoid, but having integrated cameras in almost every electronic device around, with no easy physical (vs. software) way of blocking it som…

As opposed to pocket electronics with integrated microphones? Think of all the embarassment that has occured due to pocket dialing, and now consider if that had been intentional. It's harder to block a microphone than a camera lens, too, and less obvious where the microphone is.

True. At least with cameras there's an obvious way of disabling it.

Yet there's just no enough market pressure to get manufacturers to include a clear electronic switch-off mechanism. Maybe with a few more stories like this one...

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#79

Post by bgraves »

soult wrote: post #50
bgraves wrote: post #25

This was part of a program on PBS called Digital Nation. The show was very interesting, and there's a section where the school IT administrator demonstrates his ability to pull up a students laptop ... and working webcam. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/digitalnation/learni... The relevant part starts at about 4:35. "They don't even realize that we are watching. I always like to mess with them and take a pict…

That's horrible! Also: How the hell did they finance handing out Mac laptops to all their students?

Well, the video and article mentions Google and Google Docs about a dozen times...I think Google provided some or all of the financing.

From their website: http://schools.nyc.gov/SchoolPortals/09/X339/default.htm

Showcased by Google as highly innovative school [http://a.parsons.edu/~jenkc865/339/nyc_is339_cs.pdf]

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#80

Post by furyg3 »

cduan wrote: post #59
Daniel_Newby wrote: post #5

If this violated child pornography laws, we will get the remarkable outcome that a school system is not allowed within 2500 feet of a school. So it's not all bad!

There doesn't appear to be a claim in the complaint regarding any child pornography laws yet. But who knows--that may change if new photos turn up during discovery. Here's some thoughts on the Fourth Amendment illegal search claim, at least: There is this 2001 case, Kyllo v. United States, that held it illegal for the police to use a thermal scanner to detect heat lamps in a guy's house (the heat lamps being used to…

That's with regard to a crime, however, not a school policy.

You may very well be allowed to die your hair blue, have a "legalize weed" bumper sticker on your guitar case, or an explicit novel in your backpack off campus, but if you do any of those things on-campus you violate school rules and can be punished.

Furthermore, even things you do off-campus can violate your school's code of conduct (writing about how much your teacher sucks publicly on Facebook), and you can be punished at school.

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