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School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

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Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#11
post #10

[deleted]

From the suit:

This continuing surveillance of Plaintiffs' and the Class members' home use of the laptop issued by the School District, including the indiscriminant remote activation of the webcams incorporated into each laptop, was accomplished without the knowledge or consent of the Plaintiffs or members of the Class.

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#12
All this proves is that the several countries (USA, UK, others) have legal systems that are inconsistent, at least in the formal systems sense. Starting with "laws" as axioms, and some set of rules of deduction, you can get anywhere: Person X is a pedophile, Student Z behaves improperly on Mars, etc etc.

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#13
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you think you should have unlimited rights to violate their privacy? Parents already don't have an unlimited right to limit their freedom of movement (e.g. locking them up in their room indefinitly) or the right to use any kind of violence against them. (At least that's the case here in Germany, but I would guess that the US are similar.) The rights of parents are already limited by the rights of their chil…

The underlying issue here, at least in the U.S., is that as a parent, I'm responsible for anything that happens to my children. Kid misses school, I get in trouble. Kid deals drugs, I can go to jail. Kid has a mental disorder that causes them to be violent and I let them roam free? I am responsible for the consequences. Kid keeps contraband in my car or house? I could lose my car or house to the authorities. It's hig…

Is the law that different? I know that in Germany it's quite hard to demonstrate that you have claims against the parents if their child damages something. You basically have to demonstrate that the parents really screwed up. If not, you are on your own. In Germany parents are most definitly not responsible for everything their child does.

And I never said that children have or should have the same rights as grown-ups. The law should only reflect that parents do not violate the child's rights without it being necessary and justified. And it does in Germany. I don't know about the US.

(Just one example about parent's responsibilities I remember: If, say, nine year old children damage a parking car on their way home from the playground it's imposible to make them responsible but it's also practically imposible to make their parents responsible. Going alone to and from the playground is, as long as it's not too far from home, a normal activity for nine year olds, their parents did nothing wrong.)

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#14
post #4

Found a PDF of the filing itself: http://craphound.com/robbins17.pdf It's hard for me to imagine how anyone could think this was an OK idea.

Power hungry bureaucrats who have an end justifies the means philosophy -- who don't understand that their job is to serve and not to control.

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#15
post #8

This takes things one giant leap further, but my cousin in high school already has his personal email and home web browsing read by a team of school monitors, thanks to the provision of a laptop by his public high school. Of course, his parents are unlikely to buy him his own laptop since he's already got one, so what does he need another one for?

What's stopping him from buying his own laptop?

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#16
post #10

[deleted]

No, the lawsuit clearly claims that the cameras were activated. Read comment #2 under "Nature of the action" which makes the claim.

Also, while Section 23-24 is not a direct allegation, it clearly implies that Lindy Matsko was involved in capturing a photo from the embedded webcam. It states that she showed the Plaintiff a photo that came from the camera, and when asked how she obtained it, she explained that the cameras can be remotely activated. I don't see what other conclusion could be drawn from that.

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#17

If this violated child pornography laws, we will get the remarkable outcome that a school system is not allowed within 2500 feet of a school. So it's not all bad!

Should set some interesting precedent. If this isn't child pornography, spying, unlawful wiretapping, etc... then I don't know what is.

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#18
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The underlying issue here, at least in the U.S., is that as a parent, I'm responsible for anything that happens to my children. Kid misses school, I get in trouble. Kid deals drugs, I can go to jail. Kid has a mental disorder that causes them to be violent and I let them roam free? I am responsible for the consequences. Kid keeps contraband in my car or house? I could lose my car or house to the authorities. It's hig…

Is the law that different? I know that in Germany it's quite hard to demonstrate that you have claims against the parents if their child damages something. You basically have to demonstrate that the parents really screwed up. If not, you are on your own. In Germany parents are most definitly not responsible for everything their child does. And I never said that children have or should have the same rights as grown-up…

If you need a court system to determine whether it's necessary or justified you are doing something wrong. There is a large prejudice to leaving kids and parents to work out their own problems. Therefore in practice it's all up to parent to determine how everybody's rights are to be balanced. And that's the way it should be -- parents are supposed to be training their children to uphold their values, culture, and lifestyle. This is one of the reasons we have children. The state should only interfere if harm is coming to the child, and having your folks scan your emails or search your room is not harming you at all. (Not that I approve or disapprove of any specific practices. Like I said, it's all very subjective between the kid and parent)

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#19
post #8

This takes things one giant leap further, but my cousin in high school already has his personal email and home web browsing read by a team of school monitors, thanks to the provision of a laptop by his public high school. Of course, his parents are unlikely to buy him his own laptop since he's already got one, so what does he need another one for?

What's stopping him from buying his own laptop?

Cost?

Re: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home

#20
post #8

This takes things one giant leap further, but my cousin in high school already has his personal email and home web browsing read by a team of school monitors, thanks to the provision of a laptop by his public high school. Of course, his parents are unlikely to buy him his own laptop since he's already got one, so what does he need another one for?

What's stopping him from buying his own laptop?

Money. Students in high school may not have enough money to buy a laptop.
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