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Andy Grove has died

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Re: Andy Grove has died

#131

Post by lunchTime42 »

ars wrote: post #93
cb18 wrote: post #87

He was also a Jew. As in the Jews that are well known for prodigious scientific, economic, musical, etc. etc. output. Hardly a Syrian, or Iraqi, or Afghani, or some other adherent to a hostile, violent, and regressive ideology[0]. Not everything is an equivalency just because you want the world to be as such. Worth noting in today's political climate. [0] Not that all Syrians, Iraqis, or Afghanis are. Edit: Ok, what…

Those are two unrelated things. You should not have combined them that way. And the second one is very very offtopic. You want to congratulate Jews for having a culture that produces people like him? Do it. But the behavior of other people has nothing whatsoever to do with him.

The behaviour of people whos "orthodox" are able to discuss gods-rules en detail and find workarounds - has everything to do with how you percive the world and approach everything. Its a mindset word approaching.

Re: Andy Grove has died

#132

Post by pluma »

wtbob wrote: post #128

He was a refugee from Communist and Nazi oppression; he was neither a Communist nor a Nazi. That's a big difference from a typical Syrian refugee, who is fleeing Islamic violence but still believes in Islam (and thus its exhortations to violence). I'm only posting this to note that the situations aren't as parallel as you posit; this posting about the death of Andy Grove is not the right place to discuss the refugee…

I would normally be one of the least likely persons to point this out but: "believing in Islam" (i.e. identifying as Muslim) is not the same as believing that violence in the name of Islam is justified or justifiable.

There are myriads of sects of Islam (just like Christianity) and the particular group everyone is talking about these days (i.e. ISIS) actually most closely resembles a modern revisionist unorthodox theology that has little to do with garden variety fundamentalist Islam.

In a nutshell: most Islamic sects build upon centuries of theological texts and interpretations of the original scripture. This can still yield dangerous conclusions (cf. the various fatwas inciting violence against individuals or groups) but ISIS throws this body of opinion out and substitutes a radical "unfiltered" return to the original scripture itself.

While there are Syrian refugees who hold dehumanizing religious opinions combing them all over the same brush is akin to saying all Christians support the bombings of abortion clinics because there are interpretations of Christian scripture which would find it justified.

The situation is incredibly messy and this is indeed not the best place to discuss it in detail but overgeneralizations like "Muslim == supports Islamist violence" help no-one and only serve to incite tensions (which is exactly what attacks like those in Paris and Brussels are intended to do).

Re: Andy Grove has died

#133

Post by BorisMelnik »

justsaysmthng wrote: post #127
ChuckMcM wrote: post #41

I'm sorry to hear of his passing. My first job in the Bay Area was working for Intel in Santa Clara, and I worked in the same building that Andy did at the time (Santa Clara 4). It amazed me that he had a cubical (well it had slightly higher walls but was still just a cube.) I have two very influential memories of my time at Intel, the first was when I went to a design update meeting on the 80386 and Andy locked the…

> I went to a design update meeting on the 80386 I remember dreaming about a 386 back in the day when I was a kid using a soviet 8086 clone.. It seems so incredible that these things were created by real people. I always kind of thought that aliens were building these chips .. Still do sometimes.

its probably all those old Intel commercials where it shows alien looking robots creating the chips!

Re: Andy Grove has died

#134

Post by branchless »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #62
yuhong wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinking about it and "second sourcing", it is funny how not that long afterwards they used marketing tactics like the 486SX/487SX fiasco to compete with AMD's 386DX. I wonder what would have happened if for example Intel bought Compaq instead back in 1991 (instead of Compaq having to cut R&D for example).

One of the reasons I left Intel for Sun was that Intel had just realized that "lots of people" making x86 chips was a bad thing for their control of the market. There were no less than 6 suppliers of 8086 chips. But with the 80286 and the 80386 it became clear that "owning the processor" so that they could claim a big chunk of the profit on every PC sold was very very important to the company. That strategy, while un…

I really find it hard to understand what drives these people. Let's say he cornered the entire market and sold 100% of CPUs. What then? Why?

Don't they want the best for the world, and isn't that clearly going to come through competition? I just cannot fathom their motives. Same for any line - fast food chains? Do they want everyone in the world to eat their burger every meal? Why?

I guess I need to buy one of his books to try and find out!

Re: Andy Grove has died

#135

Post by Create »

branchless wrote: post #134
ChuckMcM wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the reasons I left Intel for Sun was that Intel had just realized that "lots of people" making x86 chips was a bad thing for their control of the market. There were no less than 6 suppliers of 8086 chips. But with the 80286 and the 80386 it became clear that "owning the processor" so that they could claim a big chunk of the profit on every PC sold was very very important to the company. That strategy, while un…

I really find it hard to understand what drives these people. Let's say he cornered the entire market and sold 100% of CPUs. What then? Why? Don't they want the best for the world, and isn't that clearly going to come through competition? I just cannot fathom their motives. Same for any line - fast food chains? Do they want everyone in the world to eat their burger every meal? Why? I guess I need to buy one of his bo…

One of the chief arguments for ARM and other MIPS-like ecosystems: they are much more diverse, therefore evolve better on the long run than a tied-down monopoly (Amd used to push Intel on many fronts, ie 64 bits, SIMD, RISC core etc)

btw: Intel isn't a CPU manufacturer. It is a factory for manufacturing processor factories: they are one level of abstraction higher.

Re: Andy Grove has died

#136

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

branchless wrote: post #134
ChuckMcM wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the reasons I left Intel for Sun was that Intel had just realized that "lots of people" making x86 chips was a bad thing for their control of the market. There were no less than 6 suppliers of 8086 chips. But with the 80286 and the 80386 it became clear that "owning the processor" so that they could claim a big chunk of the profit on every PC sold was very very important to the company. That strategy, while un…

I really find it hard to understand what drives these people. Let's say he cornered the entire market and sold 100% of CPUs. What then? Why? Don't they want the best for the world, and isn't that clearly going to come through competition? I just cannot fathom their motives. Same for any line - fast food chains? Do they want everyone in the world to eat their burger every meal? Why? I guess I need to buy one of his bo…

> I just cannot fathom their motives

Maybe start with "swimming in your vault full of money like Scrooge McDuck".

Re: Andy Grove has died

#137

Post by makomk »

_yosefk wrote: post #116
nickpsecurity wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking he meant buying x86 competitors or burying them via patents. Intel both patents and buys patents on plenty of CPU-related tech, esp for x86 compatibility. Alpha and Transmeta CPU's come to mind immediately. Things just kept disappearing until we were down to basically three companies: Intel, AMD, and VIA. AMD had to pay Intel for I.P. with VIA being a niche player running losses despite some good tech.…

Everyone else (ARM etc.) has a monopoly on the ISA or they don't even publish it (NVIDIA etc.) Intel actually makes perhaps the most open commercially significant platform.

Not really. Unlike Intel, ARM licenses their ISA to anyone who's willing to pay. Every single modern iPhone has an entirely in-house Apple implementation of the ARM ISA and they're definitely not the only ones

Re: Andy Grove has died

#139

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

branchless wrote: post #134
ChuckMcM wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the reasons I left Intel for Sun was that Intel had just realized that "lots of people" making x86 chips was a bad thing for their control of the market. There were no less than 6 suppliers of 8086 chips. But with the 80286 and the 80386 it became clear that "owning the processor" so that they could claim a big chunk of the profit on every PC sold was very very important to the company. That strategy, while un…

I really find it hard to understand what drives these people. Let's say he cornered the entire market and sold 100% of CPUs. What then? Why? Don't they want the best for the world, and isn't that clearly going to come through competition? I just cannot fathom their motives. Same for any line - fast food chains? Do they want everyone in the world to eat their burger every meal? Why? I guess I need to buy one of his bo…

isn't that clearly going to come through competition?

Not if you think you're the best! Consider that: if you are in the position where you think you have by far the best product, then wouldn't you want to share it with everyone? In that case, the competition is working against the world's best interests.

Re: Andy Grove has died

#140

Post by altotrees »

I have some very distinct memories of my Junior year of high school. One was a trip to San Francisco, which impacted me greatly. I also remember sitting in the summer sun, reading every article I had collected about Sean Fanning and Napster (I gathered all of the relevant tech/lifestyle magazines at the library).

I was already well-aware of the sweeping changes technology was making in the world when I found Only The Paranoid Survive on my uncle's bookshelf. I think it was that book that really hammered home how quickly things were changing, and really astounded me, teaching me a bit about technology, a bit about business and a ton about inspiration and drive.

Whenever I hear Andy's name, I nostalgically return to that summer, a time filed with learning and stretching my perception of things. This news makes me very sad, but also is making me return to that place. I feel lucky to have been around the same time he was.

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