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U.S. Says It May Not Need Apple’s Help to Unlock iPhone

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. Says It May Not Need Apple’s Help to Unlock iPhone

#191

Post by camillomiller »

msbarnett wrote: post #143
Splines wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL. Why does the existence of the AWA allow such things that the FBI is trying to do? The AWA seems to be a very small piece of law, and using it in the way it's being used seems against the spirit of it. It's frustrating enough that code impact is completely unrelated to code size. I would rather our law not be the same way, but who am I to criticize.

> IANAL. Why does the existence of the AWA allow such things that the FBI is trying to do? Short answer: It really doesn't. But if you can talk fast and convince magistrate judges to issue writs ex parte (no one is there to oppose you), you can get a lot of mileage out of writs that wouldn't survive an appeal. Most people won't have the time, money, or inclination to challenge them. Even then, magistrate judges have…

I don't think the Congress is really fond of what Comey's doing. The FBI is basically trying to bypass the legislative power by its own means, and to do that it aimed at a target that's too big. The Cupertino hippies might not be well regarded in Washington, but the fact that they are the biggest American company, the most valued and the most respected all over the world still touches some strings in DC.

Re: U.S. Says It May Not Need Apple’s Help to Unlock iPhone

#192

Post by camillomiller »

nostromo wrote: post #27

I suspect that the intelligence and law enforcement communities are afraid that if this case goes to the Supreme Court the All Writs Act may be scaled back or ruled unconstitutional. The All Writs Act goes back to 1789 and is used for all sorts of things, like wire tapping, obtaining call and ISP records, etc., and now trying to force Apple to make malware for their own phone. It's definitely a risk for the FBI to fi…

I think it's more likely that they fear this use of the awa would be ruled incostitutional, not the law itself

Re: U.S. Says It May Not Need Apple’s Help to Unlock iPhone

#193

Post by tuyguntn »

IMO.

1. NSA and any other govt. organization do not need a help from Apple to gain necessary information

2. Most probably Apple and govt. are working together for the face of good PR

3. Now after Apple keynote, seems like sales are ok, now they can publish actual story step by step

In summary: digital is not secure enough to rely on, all other things are PR

Re: U.S. Says It May Not Need Apple’s Help to Unlock iPhone

#194

Post by studentrob »

chaostree wrote: post #181
studentrob wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some technologists hold an anarchist view that the government is evil and should be displaced. There are extremists within any group. These folks do not want to bother fighting the government for rights because they think the public is too dumb and the government will win that fight. In thinking this way, they become apathetic themselves. They're not all bad. Some of them contributed a lot to free software. But some…

Well, the USG considers Linux users to be extremists also. I think the phrase "One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter" applies. There should be no moderation in freedom (outside of the absolutes of killing another or dispossessing them of their property). My response to these types of comments is precisely - when it is demonstrated that people make laws rather than governments in collusion with co…

I don't blame you a bit.

Re: U.S. Says It May Not Need Apple’s Help to Unlock iPhone

#197

Post by Scea91 »

jacquesm wrote: post #104
philipov wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I believe that ending a whole pile of legal strategies is the point of that suggestion.

I'm all for it. If you bring suit the other party should be allowed to cause you to have to continue if you feel like dropping it. There is some potential for abuse there though, this is not a simple matter.

What if you run out of money for lawyers and want to drop the suit because of that?

Re: U.S. Says It May Not Need Apple’s Help to Unlock iPhone

#198

Post by rhizome »

wool_gather wrote: post #125
rewrew wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last week the former US "cyber czar" Richard Clarke called the FBI out directly for doing it solely for legal precedent, and stated that virtually no one even in the gov't were on their side: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/03/former-cyber-czar... >>Clarke noted that Comey and the Justice Department were not getting support in their case from the defense and intelligence communities. "The Justice Department a…

I find it more likely that this is simply a tactical decision: they already knew about this "new method", and were holding it in reserve so that they could cancel the proceedings if necessary (i.e., if Apple put up too much of a fight). They will keep trying until they get the precedent.

Or forget about precedent and just go to Congress:

http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/273482-senate-intel-...

Re: U.S. Says It May Not Need Apple’s Help to Unlock iPhone

#199

Post by DanBC »

uxp wrote: post #128
DanBC wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but watch how the message will change from "Company obviously hands over data when given a warrant" to "company doesn't hand over data when given a warrant; they really care about privacy".

What is the alternative available to Apple, or any other technology company, when given a valid warrant for someone's data that isn't blatantly ignoring the law? I'm honestly not sure what you are suggesting. Apple has already given them Farook's iCloud backups, just not recent ones since they don't exist. If Alice was murdered, and Bob was circumstantially implicated, but had an iPhone that had some kind of data rec…

Apple got a valid warrant here! But they fought back against this one.

I'm not saying they're wrong to obey court orders.

I'm saying that people will be saying that Apple fight against court orders when in fact they don't usually fight the court orders. They normally give out the information.

Re: U.S. Says It May Not Need Apple’s Help to Unlock iPhone

#200

Post by mattlutze »

What courses of action are available for private persons to bring questions like this in front of the Supreme Court? Is there something here that a private individual / corporation could find cause for a suit against the USG, so that the high courts have the opportunity to narrow the scope?

Or are we just left to petitioning and lobbying Congress to rewrite parts of it?

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