Earlier quoted context omitted.
StarCraft is not war.
Maybe they should go for Warcraft?
I was tempted to write `StarCraft is not WarCraft.' in the first place, but I managed to resist the pun. Seems like you've yielded.
DeepMind Challenges for StarCraft
131–137 of 137 posts
Re: DeepMind Challenges for StarCraft
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
From the 2015 AIIDE Starcraft AI competition report[0]. > ""Why not StarCraft 2?" > This is the question we always get asked when we tell people we are doing a BroodWar AI competition. This competition relies completely on BWAPI as a programming interface to BroodWar. BWAPI was created by reverse engineering BroodWar and relies on reading and writing to the program memory space of BroodWar in order to read data and i…
So why not use Matt's version for SC2 that doesn't provide map hacks? https://graphics.stanford.edu/~mdfisher/GameAIs.html
I imagine it also has something to do with convenience. Being such an old game, the technical requirements are quite low, which allows them to easily have that setup of multiple virtual machines on a few servers. Also, I believe they can use the same CD Key for each instance, and it doesn't require a connection to the internet, reducing variables and potential problems.
That said, it would be cool to see SC2 for this, and maybe we'll see it eventually. But I think Blizzard would have to allow it in the end, considering they've been in direct contact with them about this.
Re: DeepMind Challenges for StarCraft
#133Starcraft is a game that is played with mouse and keyboard (or game controller on console). I think in order to say an AI has beat a human, it should have to use the same interface that a human uses. That's part of the definition of the game. In Go, anyone can place a stone as well as anyone else, it's deciding where to place a stone that's the game. In Starcraft, not everyone can control the interface to the game eq…
From the 2015 AIIDE Starcraft AI competition report[0]. > ""Why not StarCraft 2?" > This is the question we always get asked when we tell people we are doing a BroodWar AI competition. This competition relies completely on BWAPI as a programming interface to BroodWar. BWAPI was created by reverse engineering BroodWar and relies on reading and writing to the program memory space of BroodWar in order to read data and i…
writing API library based on screen capping is what, 100? 200 man hours job?
Re: DeepMind Challenges for StarCraft
#134Well, anyone who says that advantage in micromanagement is not a big thing should see "Automaton 2000" videos. Given that automaton is a map script and thus can have virtually unlimited APM, it beats people from a horribly disadvantageous positions (40 banelings vs 21 marine [1], or 100 zerglings vs 20 sieged tanks [2]). [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXUOWXidcY0 [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKVFZ28ybQs
how does the siege tanks vs zerglings work? how do AI know which zergling is targetted? Also was there a delay for siege tanks after it selects a target but before shooting it down? Wasn't it instant like marine, can't remember it.
Or maybe it is because opponent is also AI and automaton simply knows which target it will auto pick.
Re: DeepMind Challenges for StarCraft
#135Maybe Civ? I guess the single game takes too long but I still would love to see it as default AI is totally crap and relies on handicaps.
Re: DeepMind Challenges for StarCraft
#136Well, anyone who says that advantage in micromanagement is not a big thing should see "Automaton 2000" videos. Given that automaton is a map script and thus can have virtually unlimited APM, it beats people from a horribly disadvantageous positions (40 banelings vs 21 marine [1], or 100 zerglings vs 20 sieged tanks [2]). [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXUOWXidcY0 [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKVFZ28ybQs
how does the siege tanks vs zerglings work? how do AI know which zergling is targetted? Also was there a delay for siege tanks after it selects a target but before shooting it down? Wasn't it instant like marine, can't remember it. Or maybe it is because opponent is also AI and automaton simply knows which target it will auto pick.
All tanks have limited and fixed range, so Automaton just instantly splits all zerglings from the one which comes first into tank fire range. It IS instant, but highly deterministic, at least their first attacks are. And after their first shot, due to long cooldown, all zerglings are just already attacking tanks in fairly split manner and mostly unkillable by tanks anymore.
Re: DeepMind Challenges for StarCraft
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed. It also wouldn't be very interesting to watch a human-AI game where the human is better at planning and tactics but the AI just wins even uphill battles due to insane micro.
I would LOVE to see an AI vs AI game though where the AI had no restrictions on APM/micro. I mean, what would an AI come up with given just mass zerglings vs mass zerglings. Would love to see the strategies possible with near unlimited attention and APM.
Problem with that lies in different balancing.
For example, while banelings, are considered hard-counter to marines, stimpacked marines are still faster than even speed-banelings not on creep and just a little bit slower on creep. Pros use splitting to minimize damage, but here, as you can see, it can be just ultimate showdown.
Another example would be high templars vs ghosts. It is fairly difficult for Terran player to target high templars, but just two EMP shots basically puts templars out of combat, and miss of those shots renders ghosts mostly useless.
So, any area-of-effect attacks would be mostly useless due to infinite APM. That means minus colossi, tanks, banelings, thors and many other units. Probably that means that some race will be somewhat (or, maybe, insanely) overpowered (my bet is on Terran due to possibility of multiple drops, which themselves could be useless, though (because AI can't "miss" a drop), and stim-marine micro). So, the game will require massive rebalancing.