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Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile

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Re: Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile

#171

Post by lisper »

TheLogothete wrote: post #167
lisper wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can argue over whether Angellist's ToS constituted valid consent. But the original blanket claim that an action "can't be magically made OK by a contract" is just flat-out false. It can.

It can in some circumstances. If the action is illegal in the first place, no contract can make it OK.

But being "illegal in the first place" almost always hinges on consent, at least in the case of crimes that have victims. (Victimless crimes obviously cannot hinge on consent because there's no one to consent.) I think you'll find it very challenging to come up with an example of an action that is a crime with a victim that doesn't involve lack of consent as an essential element. The only example I can think of offhand is statutory rape, and in that case it's only independent of consent because the victim is explicitly barred by law from giving consent.

Re: Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile

#172

Post by devit »

andlarry wrote: post #146

When our CEO added me to our angel list account, I recieved this email from them: Hi [My Name], I'm building an AngelList profile for [our company] and need your help. Can you do me a favor and confirm that you're a team member by clicking here: https://angel.co/l/[shortlink] To prove that you're the real [My Name] you will be asked to create an account if you don't already have one. This is important to us; confirmi…

Wouldn't it have the wrong sender address?

Or are they actually forging it? (and somehow not getting put into spam due to SPF/DKIM failing)

Re: Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile

#173

Post by notalaser »

vidarh wrote: post #161
notalaser wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but consent is not something that can be universally declared in a credible manner. There are things that remain illegal even after you have consented to them. For instance, having sex with someone below the age of consent is illegal even if they have consented to it (the idea being, of course, that they may be coerced into expressing that consent). > All jurisdictions I'm aware of (not a lawyer) have the concep…

> There are things that remain illegal even after you have consented to them. Yes, I pointed that out. > They do, but things are not as simple as "can act on your behalf with consent" I believe that was exactly the point I was making. > Around here, for instance (but I'm in Europe), they can only act on your behalf if: While I'm sure you're right for your location, "Europe" encompasses not only ~50 distinct legal sys…

> While I'm sure you're right for your location, "Europe" encompasses not only ~50 distinct legal systems, but also half a dozen or so distinct legal traditions (with e.g. Common law, Germanic law, Napoleonic law and Roman law as the biggest traditions), which is one of the reasons I specifically pointed out that it varies greatly how clear one has to be about whether or not something is signed by an agent.

Of course. I mentioned I'm in Europe just to ensure that it's clear I'm not referring to any law that apply in the US, as this is what HN is most familiar with. Europe is, indeed, very diverse when it comes to law.

Re: Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile

#174

Post by btilly »

dzohrob wrote: post #140

Hi there, I’m Dave and I work at AngelList on our Talent platform. Please accept our sincere apologies for what happened here. Sending an email without giving you a heads-up or control over its content was wrong. Here’s what we’re doing to fix it: * We’ve made it clearer that tagging a company on a project may notify them by email. * We’ve revised the project tagging email to clarify that it’s automatically generated…

Here is what you are missing.

When people join a company, that is the last time that most of us think about updating our profile so that we will be ready to leave. When people leave a company, we realize that we have to and do it. And everyone around us knows what that means because that is what they do as well.

You therefore need to create a way to distinguish between verified and unverified positions. And default to making the current job unverified exactly because of this problem.

Re: Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile

#175

Post by oliversisson »

dwightgunning wrote: post #33

When you say "pretending to be me" do you mean that they spoofed your email address in the from and/or reply-to fields? [edit: typo]

They used my name in the email from and reply-to fields, and to sign my name. I've replied to my original post with the actual email.

Re: Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile

#176

Post by colinplamondon »

greggarious wrote: post #150
dzohrob wrote: post #140

Hi there, I’m Dave and I work at AngelList on our Talent platform. Please accept our sincere apologies for what happened here. Sending an email without giving you a heads-up or control over its content was wrong. Here’s what we’re doing to fix it: * We’ve made it clearer that tagging a company on a project may notify them by email. * We’ve revised the project tagging email to clarify that it’s automatically generated…

Our of curiosity, does AngelList have a chief privacy officer, or even a privacy manager or subject matter expert embedded with the engineers? (Until this moment I wasn't familiar with the service - I mostly get jobs through friends and former coworkers.) I understand some companies are not large enough to have a dedicated privacy professional, but as someone who knows quite a bit about it, it's really frustrating wh…

Just want to throw out, I love your comment. Positive, understanding, while directly questioning on a serious issue.

Re: Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile

#177

Post by oliversisson »

This is the original email. My name is Oliver Sisson and I work at Coursera.

From: Oliver Sisson Date: March 20, 2016 at 10:02:25 AM PDT To: staffing@coursera.org Subject: [recruiting] I created a project for Coursera, could you confirm? Reply-To: Oliver Sisson

Hi Coursera,

I created a project for Coursera: [Project description redacted] Could you please confirm the project, by following this link:

https://angel.co/l/3248d1520e525149b6bf36369d0b519a/MbVzt

Thanks, Oliver Sisson

Re: Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile

#178

Post by huac »

lisper wrote: post #134
JupiterMoon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No! If an offence is criminal it can't be magically made OK by a contract. I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice.

Of course it can. Lack of consent is a key element in many crimes. Rape, for example.

Question isn't consent here. Consent is part of what constitutes a contract, but you've clearly consented to their TOS. More importantly, their TOS cannot allow or compel a party to perform a criminal or tortious act. If impersonating you is criminal, then the contract is invalid.

Re: Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile

#179

Post by andlarry »

devit wrote: post #172
andlarry wrote: post #146

When our CEO added me to our angel list account, I recieved this email from them: Hi [My Name], I'm building an AngelList profile for [our company] and need your help. Can you do me a favor and confirm that you're a team member by clicking here: https://angel.co/l/[shortlink] To prove that you're the real [My Name] you will be asked to create an account if you don't already have one. This is important to us; confirmi…

Wouldn't it have the wrong sender address? Or are they actually forging it? (and somehow not getting put into spam due to SPF/DKIM failing)

  From:  [CEO Name] 
  Reply-To: [CEO Name]
They're not forging the from address, it was SPF/DKIM signed.

Re: Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile

#180

Post by zyxley »

RickS wrote: post #168
dzohrob wrote: post #140

Hi there, I’m Dave and I work at AngelList on our Talent platform. Please accept our sincere apologies for what happened here. Sending an email without giving you a heads-up or control over its content was wrong. Here’s what we’re doing to fix it: * We’ve made it clearer that tagging a company on a project may notify them by email. * We’ve revised the project tagging email to clarify that it’s automatically generated…

> We’ve made it clearer that tagging a company on a project may notify them by email. The correct answer was > The interface now yells loudly when a change would notify anyone but yourself, with the option not to send that notification. When doing a thing spams other people, we stop doing the thing.

Exactly.

If this isn't changed... bye-bye AngelList account.

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