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We only hire the trendiest

danluu.com

371–380 of 728 posts

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#371
Holy cow, was this a refreshing perspective.

I'm one of those underrated engineers who has had trouble getting past nearly every phase of the hiring process at various times. It's frustrating because I'm pretty smart and very passionate about building software, especially tools.

This bias against having the wrong keywords on your resume is incredibly unproductive,I agree, but I would guess it's a result of how little you can actually tell about someone from just a page or two of their work history, which is all most companies have to go on from a resume alone.

I am dying to get some company to take a chance on me, to someday have the benefit of a real mentor, and to be given a real opportunity to feed all this ambition that just won't go away.

I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that, either. We're here, we're waiting, and we are legion. It's time for a solution to the problem of how to put us in touch with all those hiring managers that complain about how hard it is to find talent.

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#372
post #326
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that unix folks don't appreciate it, but that it's not clear what to appreciate. From solely a personal standpoint, years of both using and programming on Windows taught me nothing about its values. However, I can talk about Apple and its values for hours and I've never owned anything Apple except its keyboard. Joel, the author of the article you linked to, states the core value of Windows as being "useful t…

I'd say on the contrary, Android shows what it takes to make Linux do well with the general public - a huge company to ignore like 80% of the standard Linux install and build a whole new UI layer from scratch that is designed to appeal to end users.

That's a testament to the inescapable conclusion that X11 is terrible for mobile devices.

There's still Linux underneath -- it's not stock Ubuntu, not by a long shot -- but it's Linux.

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#373
I've given perhaps 50-100 interviews and I'm not sure how many I've been on the other end of. I still believe interviewing is hard.

One of the things I typically told my employees and coworkers to do was to avoid psycho-analyzing someone based on small wordings and behaviors in responses.

Really, hiring is imperfect - I did try to hire people who were high energy, friendly, and not likely trying to suck up or B.S. through an interview - but there's a lot of things you can't really tell.

Many interview questions - such as targetted selection - can find negatives to not hire someone, but are easy to bypass if someone knows how those questions work (always give answers that cast you in a favorable light, etc) and are good at interviewing.

I agree that a lot of places do screen too much on cultural fit, but on the other hand, people want to work with people that will be good to work with - and they will have a LOT of time to spend with these people.

In days where we so closely identify with our work, I can see wanting people who could possibly become friends.

This becomes dangerous when it trends into ageism, or reduces the ability of very well qualified people to get a shot, and I've seen firsthand this result in some places hiring a lot of young folks that THOUGHT they knew a lot, but were really at a sophomoric level of experience.

Really good products come out of a diversity of experience and technical backgrounds. However, if someone is going to clash with the team, it's somewhat also better for them to not be working with that team - sometimes - but sometimes it may also work out great.

There's really not a good answer here, only tradeoffs.

People are squishy and complicated.

I tried to limit psycho-analysis and culture fit to "are these good, honest, and mostly friendly people".

I also believe smart people can learn almost anything, and often technical criteria or even small tech preferences that are not clear-cut can be used as code for really not hiring someone for culture fit.

Sometimes I feel a greater danger in interviewing is not allowing the interviewee a good enough picture of what is wrong about the company they are joining - often, interviews feel like sales pitches at the candidate, or focus primarily on the candidate's abilities and background, not hitting most of the things that will really say "will they be happy here".

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#374
post #270

Daniel Kahneman talks about an idea called substitution in his book Thinking Fast and Slow that I think really applies here. Here's the jist: When your brain is faced with doing a task that's going to require a lot of glucose it will look for shortcuts to save you energy. One of those shortcuts is your mind will look for an available heuristic, swap out the energy hungry analysis for the heuristic, and then signal yo…

The amount of self-delusion among my fellow developers is truly breathtaking at times. Just the stuff I catch myself doing - even while this pattern is a huge pet peeve that I obsess over - is pretty bad.

We need to feel smart, even though half the stuff we do is pretty damned stupid, and we keep doing it over and over again for decades before catching on.

We still have watercooler conversations about issues that were identified in books that are now 30 years old. How depressing is that? Just how clever are we?

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#375
post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any tips on how to find out about (some of) these in a quick (phone) interview?

I usually ask "What are you interested in?" and just let them speak, then ask them to elaborate a few times. People who find this frustrating are usually low-openness, as are people who become noticeably indignant after being asked to share more. Also, I ask what are the most important things they are looking for in the team they will be joining. Some people are interviewing because they dislike their current job so…

Can you offer some advice to people who are low-openness and don't see why that's a problem?

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#376
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Work-sample tests are clearly protected; it's IQ tests which aren't permitted (Duke Power v.)

Right but 2 things: 1) HR (presumably taking direction from in house counsel) takes the position that it will be difficult to distinguish between a work sample test and an IQ test 2) We are a large organization with very broad roles. The Performance Team hiring for a Senior Software Engineer will probably want a different work sample than the Analytics Team...

The HR involved must be applying cargo cult rules of thumb without understanding the actual rules and the work the company does (which is, unfortunately, distressingly common for HR organizations.) If the actual work you did was such that a work sample would be indistinguishable from an IQ test (which it isn't, for almost any real work anywhere, and you'd have to be ignorant of either what the work is or what IQ tests are to make that mistake for most jobs) then IQ tests wouldn't be problematic in any case: IQ tests aren't specially prohibited in employment, they were just the immediate subject of one notable case which held that anything with a greater impact on a protected class is illegal if that impact is not warranted by the validity of the filter at issue as a measure of performance in the job for which it is used as a filter.

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#377
post #270

Daniel Kahneman talks about an idea called substitution in his book Thinking Fast and Slow that I think really applies here. Here's the jist: When your brain is faced with doing a task that's going to require a lot of glucose it will look for shortcuts to save you energy. One of those shortcuts is your mind will look for an available heuristic, swap out the energy hungry analysis for the heuristic, and then signal yo…

Kahneman also writes in the same book about his experience with interviews as a young psychologist with the Israeli army. His recommendation? A simple (but well thought out) rubric.

Identify 5 or 6 qualities that are essential to the success of your team. Tailor your questions around evaluating for those. Interview a bunch of people, score them on a scale of 1 to 5 for each of those categories. Resist your gut feeling. Then hire the ones with the highest score.

He acknowledges that it's crude but it was more successful than their previous process and makes as much sense as anything else I've read on the subject of hiring.

Amusingly, when he got pushback from the interviewing team for not allowing them to follow their well-honed instincts, he agreed to add "Gut Feeling" as one of the 5 or 6 parameters on which candidates would be scored. That detail, for me, sums up the man's brilliance.

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#378

I've found that the best predictors of a good hire are indications of the following characteristics during the interview/vetting process: - adaptability -- can this person deal with situations that are spontaneous and unplanned without losing his/her cool. - openness -- is this person instinctively scornful of new concepts/ideas or energized by the chance to be exposed to something potentially interesting. - resource…

> - rationality -- can this person admit to being wrong and speak about it authentically... can I imagine this person admitting to being slightly wrong and even very wrong about something and handling it gracefully.

I think this is a super important characteristic for a great employee to have, but I don't know how reasonable it is to expect to see much of it in an interview. In an interview setting, the candidate is under a lot of pressure to come across as "perfect" in the sense that they want to appear to meet all of the expectations the interviewer has for them.

Asking about mistakes they have made, or putting them in a position to make a mistake during the interview itself can just be really stressful. Candidates that think you want them to make no mistakes will feel they are doing poorly. Candidates that know you want them to be comfortable being wrong—whether or not they actually are—can easily game this.

> - poker face -- does this person seem to be playing it close to the vest in the interview or otherwise have very low levels of openness? This is a big warning sign and an instant do not hire.

One of the things I've heard from HR/recruiting folks is that it's not a good idea to use body language as a signal. There's a lot of cultural and personality variation around it. You can end up with an unfairly biased opinion simply because they come from a culture that is not very demonstrative, or they are introverted or otherwise have personality traits that lead them to not display a lot of emotion or energy.

I agree with all of the characteristics you list here. It's a great snapshot of what I like in a good coworker. But, man, accurately detecting them in an interview seems super hard to me. But maybe I just don't have much confidence in my own interviewing skills.

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#379
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem could also be that many teams simply don't have the time or possess the knowledge to do an assessment like you're suggesting (which I agree is a good way to assess candidates). It requires someone to actually design an assignment (which is a task that many coders might not be good at), and requires one or more people to evaluate it. The ridiculous whiteboard coding of puzzles probably stems from laziness…

Hours? It could take a week, and if you're going to hire more than one person this quarter, it will still be worth it just in the time savings from not having developers deliver bad interviews .

I agree completely. But in many organizations recruiting and hiring would be considered overhead instead of strategic, and thus a target for outsourcing to someone in HR or some outside firm. The problem there of course is that those people have neither the ability nor the inclination to create or evaluate a work sample challenge.

Really my comment was just to help demystify why this sort of thing doesn't happen in many companies based on my own observations.

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I ran a process like this for several years. I ran recruiting for the largest software security firm in the US; before that firm bought us, I used this process to more than double the size of my company. When I left, to work on a recruiting startup, not one of the people I'd overseen hiring had quit or been fired. I'm religious about this topic for a reason. :)

Was the 0% turnover due to great teammates, great projects, or above-market comp? I've never seen 0%!

We paid the market median to new hires; we definitely didn't buy our way to that turnover (NCC pays better than a lot of early stage startups, but not better than late-stage ones).

No, I attribute the turnover to the recruiting mechanism. We found great people who were sorely mispriced by the market, and we took advantage of that to create a win-win scenario: people without the resume to get a similar job at a competing firm got an extremely impactful resume bullet and a good-paying job, and we got people who genuinely wanted to be on our team and weren't applying as a once-a-year lateral job-hopping gamble.

(I have no problem with people job-hopping, by the way, but every employer is trying to minimize their exposure to that.)

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