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Microsoft won't stop forcing companies to pay for its bogus Android patents

zdnet.com

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Re: Microsoft won't stop forcing companies to pay for its bogus Android patents

#11

Post by esolyt »

josephpmay wrote: post #10
dogma1138 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple vs Samsung et al. Issuing patents on silly things like slide to unlock and mag lock even tho those functions existed before Apple has ever used them? Heck I'm surprised they haven't sue every kitchen appliance in Asia for violating their maglock patent.... Heck the first apple iPhone GUI related suit against Samsung was field before the first iPhone was even on the market.

Can you provide an example of slide to unlock before the iPhone? Also, I (personally) feel that maglock for a power cable is very different from maglock for a refrigerator. (A ticket terminal and a vending machine are very different devices covered by different patents even if they both utilize the same basic mechanisms.)

A touchscreen phone named Neonode N1 had slide-to-unlock 2 years before iPhone.

http://9to5mac.com/2011/10/25/slide-to-unlock-patented/

But the point is, it is a very trivial way of interacting with a touchscreen. It is, in fact, one of the few ways one can interact with a touchscreen.

Re: Microsoft won't stop forcing companies to pay for its bogus Android patents

#13

Post by mtgx »

dogma1138 wrote: post #3

I can't seem to understand if MSFT patents actually apply to the Android OS / AOSP or just to various firmware, middleware and software that OEM's use on their devices regardless of the OS in question. The AOSP license and 3rd party notifications do not mention Microsoft and the patents listed in Chinese doc are like vague in the usual patent-esque way. But in any case i don't really see the issue here, if MSFT gets…

Even if that was the case, which I don't think it is, Microsoft shouldn't be asking for stuff like FAT32 royalties.

Think about it. Microsoft is asking for royalties for making devices that work with Windows. How crazy is that? Imagine if Google charged accessory makers for hooking into Android devices. I don't care if others do this sort of thing, too. It's just wrong.

It should be an anti-trust issue, especially when you have a dominating OS like Windows. What are other companies going to do - make mobile devices that don't work with Windows?

Re: Microsoft won't stop forcing companies to pay for its bogus Android patents

#14

Post by yuhong »

mtgx wrote: post #13
dogma1138 wrote: post #3

I can't seem to understand if MSFT patents actually apply to the Android OS / AOSP or just to various firmware, middleware and software that OEM's use on their devices regardless of the OS in question. The AOSP license and 3rd party notifications do not mention Microsoft and the patents listed in Chinese doc are like vague in the usual patent-esque way. But in any case i don't really see the issue here, if MSFT gets…

Even if that was the case, which I don't think it is, Microsoft shouldn't be asking for stuff like FAT32 royalties. Think about it. Microsoft is asking for royalties for making devices that work with Windows . How crazy is that? Imagine if Google charged accessory makers for hooking into Android devices. I don't care if others do this sort of thing, too. It's just wrong. It should be an anti-trust issue, especially w…

And remember that it was only relatively recently that they asked for it in the first place. And yes indeed I think it also includes Chrome OS too nowadays.

Re: Microsoft won't stop forcing companies to pay for its bogus Android patents

#15

Post by reitanqild »

dogma1138 wrote: post #7
leadingthenet wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, what do you mean when you say that Apple is the biggest patent troll in history? It's the first time I hear such a claim.

Apple vs Samsung et al. Issuing patents on silly things like slide to unlock and mag lock even tho those functions existed before Apple has ever used them? Heck I'm surprised they haven't sue every kitchen appliance in Asia for violating their maglock patent.... Heck the first apple iPhone GUI related suit against Samsung was field before the first iPhone was even on the market.

And that is before we even start on the "design patents".

Re: Microsoft won't stop forcing companies to pay for its bogus Android patents

#16

Post by dogma1138 »

josephpmay wrote: post #10
dogma1138 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple vs Samsung et al. Issuing patents on silly things like slide to unlock and mag lock even tho those functions existed before Apple has ever used them? Heck I'm surprised they haven't sue every kitchen appliance in Asia for violating their maglock patent.... Heck the first apple iPhone GUI related suit against Samsung was field before the first iPhone was even on the market.

Can you provide an example of slide to unlock before the iPhone? Also, I (personally) feel that maglock for a power cable is very different from maglock for a refrigerator. (A ticket terminal and a vending machine are very different devices covered by different patents even if they both utilize the same basic mechanisms.)

In Asia small appliances had a magnet on the power cable for ages these aren't fridges but smaller appliances like kettles and hotplates and it was added exactly for the same reason that Apple added it to their laptops the only difference is that Asia has been doing so since the 60's.

Re: Microsoft won't stop forcing companies to pay for its bogus Android patents

#17

Post by mortehu »

dogma1138 wrote: post #3

I can't seem to understand if MSFT patents actually apply to the Android OS / AOSP or just to various firmware, middleware and software that OEM's use on their devices regardless of the OS in question. The AOSP license and 3rd party notifications do not mention Microsoft and the patents listed in Chinese doc are like vague in the usual patent-esque way. But in any case i don't really see the issue here, if MSFT gets…

Why do you want more scrutiny for Google's patents? As far as I know, they have never used their patents aggressively, only as a defense. In an environment containing trolls like Apple and Microsoft, I can't blame them.

Re: Microsoft won't stop forcing companies to pay for its bogus Android patents

#18

Post by rubber_duck »

esolyt wrote: post #11
josephpmay wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide an example of slide to unlock before the iPhone? Also, I (personally) feel that maglock for a power cable is very different from maglock for a refrigerator. (A ticket terminal and a vending machine are very different devices covered by different patents even if they both utilize the same basic mechanisms.)

A touchscreen phone named Neonode N1 had slide-to-unlock 2 years before iPhone. http://9to5mac.com/2011/10/25/slide-to-unlock-patented/ But the point is, it is a very trivial way of interacting with a touchscreen. It is, in fact, one of the few ways one can interact with a touchscreen.

>But the point is, it is a very trivial way of interacting with a touchscreen. It is, in fact, one of the few ways one can interact with a touchscreen.

I don't get how people can argue stuff like this should even be covered by patents. What's the rationale ?

Did Apple spend billions in R&D to develop this feature it now needs a mechanism to recoup it's investment ? I suppose they wouldn't "invent" swipe to unlock if it wasn't for the patent so they needed extra incentives to make it a viable investment ?

The fact that you can get a patent for something trivial and inconsequential like this shows how flawed the system is IMO.

Re: Microsoft won't stop forcing companies to pay for its bogus Android patents

#19

Post by dogma1138 »

mtgx wrote: post #13
dogma1138 wrote: post #3

I can't seem to understand if MSFT patents actually apply to the Android OS / AOSP or just to various firmware, middleware and software that OEM's use on their devices regardless of the OS in question. The AOSP license and 3rd party notifications do not mention Microsoft and the patents listed in Chinese doc are like vague in the usual patent-esque way. But in any case i don't really see the issue here, if MSFT gets…

Even if that was the case, which I don't think it is, Microsoft shouldn't be asking for stuff like FAT32 royalties. Think about it. Microsoft is asking for royalties for making devices that work with Windows . How crazy is that? Imagine if Google charged accessory makers for hooking into Android devices. I don't care if others do this sort of thing, too. It's just wrong. It should be an anti-trust issue, especially w…

Why shouldn't MSFT claim patents for FAT? They've developed it and it was adopted by everyone and their mother for being good and cheap FS.

You don't need to support FAT to allow transfer of files between your your Windows PC and the phone standards that abstract the file system like MTP and PTP exist for this very own reason.

If you are as a phone maker want to enable users to mount their local phone storage as a fully writable file system cheaply you just format the SDCard using FAT and pay royalties.

If you don't you can still easily bypass the FAT patent issue by creating your own abstraction layer which may or maynot require the user to use specialized software and drivers (BB manager/itune/kies etc.).

That said for the majority of users MTP and PTP are more than sufficient I have an iPhone now and I do not miss the mount-SD card feature one bit if I'm honest even without using iTunes on a non-jailbroken device.

I can still plugin the phone and transfer files from the camera which is pretty much the only bloodything I could do with it anyhow and for this Apple does not need to support FAR nor pay MSFT a dime.

Re: Microsoft won't stop forcing companies to pay for its bogus Android patents

#20

Post by dave2000 »

dogma1138 wrote: post #3

I can't seem to understand if MSFT patents actually apply to the Android OS / AOSP or just to various firmware, middleware and software that OEM's use on their devices regardless of the OS in question. The AOSP license and 3rd party notifications do not mention Microsoft and the patents listed in Chinese doc are like vague in the usual patent-esque way. But in any case i don't really see the issue here, if MSFT gets…

"Google owns countless patents and Apple just might be the biggest patent troll in history and none of them seem to receive even remotely the same amount of scrutiny."

Why would you face scrutiny for holding patents?

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