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Welcome to the Post-Work Economy

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Re: Welcome to the Post-Work Economy

#11

Post by jessaustin »

brianwawok wrote: post #7
npx wrote: post #3

In terms of GDP per capita, I live in one of the lowest income counties in a state that is well below the national average. I'm not sure if many of the points made in this article would be felt so viscerally by someone living in SF making $100k+/yr, but I found it very interesting. It's worth noting that I have received exactly $0.00 in government subsidization (student loans, disability, unemployment, etc) - I've ne…

You got $0 in government subsidisation? You don't use public roads? The police don't service you? You didn't get a free public education?

I take it you are privileged enough to spend most of your time in areas served by fairly complete road systems. You could be responding to someone who does not, especially since that person lives in "one of the lowest income counties in a state that is well below the national average". There are no "roads" as you would identify them in many such places. They do have jeep trails etc. but no government built them.

Re: Welcome to the Post-Work Economy

#12

Post by jondubois »

I like the idea of basic income but I don't like the idea of raising income tax. I think capital gains tax should be raised and there should be a special tax on passive income.

All Passive income sources are essentially small monopolies - If you own an asset from which you derive passive income without having to work at all; the dynamics of this are not so different from a corporation having a monopoly over an industry. At the root, why should some people get paid for doing nothing at all while others get nothing. Doing nothing should have the same market value no matter who you are.

Re: Welcome to the Post-Work Economy

#13

Post by merpnderp »

jondubois wrote: post #12

I like the idea of basic income but I don't like the idea of raising income tax. I think capital gains tax should be raised and there should be a special tax on passive income. All Passive income sources are essentially small monopolies - If you own an asset from which you derive passive income without having to work at all; the dynamics of this are not so different from a corporation having a monopoly over an indust…

The simple answer is that they're risking their capital. If someone buys a tent house, they now have an asset that can burn down (insurance only making them partially whole), or get a renter who draws out zero payments for months. Or just the bottom falling out of the market.

Risk should be rewarded.

Re: Welcome to the Post-Work Economy

#14

Post by sunsu »

jondubois wrote: post #12

I like the idea of basic income but I don't like the idea of raising income tax. I think capital gains tax should be raised and there should be a special tax on passive income. All Passive income sources are essentially small monopolies - If you own an asset from which you derive passive income without having to work at all; the dynamics of this are not so different from a corporation having a monopoly over an indust…

Your idea is basically discouraging (and punishing) saving. You are completely missing the fact that those "savings" are reinvested into the economy via loans, credit, capital, etc.

Re: Welcome to the Post-Work Economy

#15

Post by mistermann »

jMyles wrote: post #10
brianwawok wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got $0 in government subsidisation? You don't use public roads? The police don't service you? You didn't get a free public education?

Do we have to hash this out in every HN thread that touches on economics? These arguments are very weak. Plenty of people don't believe in police. Plenty of people homeschool and / or don't like what government schools have done. The "who will build the roads" trope is so tired that - and I'm not kidding here - one of the ice cream vendors at the Porcupine Festival has a best-selling flavor, "Who will build the rocky…

Maybe we wouldn't have to hash this out in every thread if you'd explain how some people don't benefit from police or public roads (whether you "believe in them" or not).

Re: Welcome to the Post-Work Economy

#16

Post by mistermann »

sunsu wrote: post #14
jondubois wrote: post #12

I like the idea of basic income but I don't like the idea of raising income tax. I think capital gains tax should be raised and there should be a special tax on passive income. All Passive income sources are essentially small monopolies - If you own an asset from which you derive passive income without having to work at all; the dynamics of this are not so different from a corporation having a monopoly over an indust…

Your idea is basically discouraging (and punishing) saving. You are completely missing the fact that those "savings" are reinvested into the economy via loans, credit, capital, etc.

Agreed, but so are near zero (or effectively negative) percent interest rates we've had for quite some time now, which coincidentally tends to benefit rent seekers in the economy. Raising taxes on some forms of "passive" income seems not that unreasonable under the current circumstances.

Re: Welcome to the Post-Work Economy

#17

Post by jMyles »

mistermann wrote: post #15
jMyles wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we have to hash this out in every HN thread that touches on economics? These arguments are very weak. Plenty of people don't believe in police. Plenty of people homeschool and / or don't like what government schools have done. The "who will build the roads" trope is so tired that - and I'm not kidding here - one of the ice cream vendors at the Porcupine Festival has a best-selling flavor, "Who will build the rocky…

Maybe we wouldn't have to hash this out in every thread if you'd explain how some people don't benefit from police or public roads (whether you "believe in them" or not).

I don't mean to be undiplomatic, but there's no way I'm going to encapsulate this is an HN comment. Books! You must read books!

If you want something really easy to start with (albeit a surface scratcher), try The Revolution: A Manifesto by Ron Paul.

I don't even understand why anybody thinks that the default position is that everyone benefits from police. The burden is on you to prove that one.

Re: Welcome to the Post-Work Economy

#18

Post by WizardlySquid »

The author clearly doesn't understand some extremely basic economic concepts. The world is very far from a completely automated future where the economy is run by magic pixie dust. It might not seem like people actually work when you're a blogger from new york but there are people out there do actual work for a living.

Re: Welcome to the Post-Work Economy

#19

Post by youfunnypeople »

jpco wrote: post #9

Sounds like it really wants to differentiate itself from the "old kind of socialism", which has a heritage of thought which already contains a lot of the things mentioned here. And, as with most socialist thought, tends to kick up a lot of cries and moans from the self-professed economists in the room.

>Sounds like it really wants to differentiate itself from the "old kind of socialism"...

Technically he's right that UBI is not socialism; it's basically yet another solution for rescuing capitalism from its inherent contradictions.

>And, as with most socialist thought, tends to kick up a lot of cries and moans from the self-professed economists in the room.

I'm enjoying it mightily. You know you're getting close to the truth when people with aspirations of domination try to attack your ideas.

Re: Welcome to the Post-Work Economy

#20

Post by haberman »

jMyles wrote: post #17
mistermann wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we wouldn't have to hash this out in every thread if you'd explain how some people don't benefit from police or public roads (whether you "believe in them" or not).

I don't mean to be undiplomatic, but there's no way I'm going to encapsulate this is an HN comment. Books! You must read books! If you want something really easy to start with (albeit a surface scratcher), try The Revolution: A Manifesto by Ron Paul. I don't even understand why anybody thinks that the default position is that everyone benefits from police. The burden is on you to prove that one.

> The burden is on you to prove that one.

If every modern society has chosen to have police, I think the burden is on you to prove that every modern society is wrong.

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