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School grades are hopelessly broken

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Re: School grades are hopelessly broken

#11

Post by sanj »

chanux wrote: post #4
wheaties wrote: post #2

Great, I wouldn't hire you. I don't care how smart you are. Just on the basis of effort you're willing to put forward on tasks you deem unimportant to you means that I can't trust you to perform tasks that I deem important to me. I need someone willing to work through "bullshit" tasks just as much as I need someone to work on "gee-whiz-wow" tasks.

This type is not the get-hired type. It's the do-things-different-and-change-the-world type.

You'd be surprised at how many of the tasks are BS-y when changing the world.

Re: School grades are hopelessly broken

#12

Post by sp332 »

grinich wrote: post #6

On the topic of grade inflation: In 1966, 22% of Harvard undergraduate students earned A's. By 1996, that figure rose to 46%. That same year, 82% of Harvard seniors graduated with honors. In 1973, 31% of all grades at Princeton were A's. By 1997 that rose to 43%. In 1997, only 12% of all grades given at Princeton were below the B range. (source: Source: American Academy of Arts & Sciences) One of the best things abou…

My college didn't do grade inflation either. If you do an average job, you get a C. At the beginning of each year, they call the parents of incoming students and tell them not to be worried if the students get Cs - most people in the college get Cs. The on-campus bookstore sold t-shirts with "C+ Better than average!" on them.

Re: School grades are hopelessly broken

#13

Post by pw0ncakes »

wheaties wrote: post #2

Great, I wouldn't hire you. I don't care how smart you are. Just on the basis of effort you're willing to put forward on tasks you deem unimportant to you means that I can't trust you to perform tasks that I deem important to me. I need someone willing to work through "bullshit" tasks just as much as I need someone to work on "gee-whiz-wow" tasks.

I think the reflexive not-doing-homework attitude is moronic and ultimately more useless than doing everything assigned without introspection.

I tended to do the assignments in school. They were easy compared to the things I would do on my own, and the silly ones tended not to be time-consuming.

If you never do homework, how do you know that the homework is bullshit? Some teachers actually know what they're doing, after all.

Re: School grades are hopelessly broken

#14

Post by ryanwaggoner »

chanux wrote: post #4
wheaties wrote: post #2

Great, I wouldn't hire you. I don't care how smart you are. Just on the basis of effort you're willing to put forward on tasks you deem unimportant to you means that I can't trust you to perform tasks that I deem important to me. I need someone willing to work through "bullshit" tasks just as much as I need someone to work on "gee-whiz-wow" tasks.

This type is not the get-hired type. It's the do-things-different-and-change-the-world type.

Yeah, that's a nice thought, but not really reflective of reality.

First, the guy already has a job, which he clearly states in the essay.

Second, the majority of people who change the world have jobs at different points in their career. People like Gates, Jobs, and Dell who never really had jobs and just did their own thing from day 1 are so far an exception that they're probably worthless as role models in that sense.

Finally, the majority of people who bullshit their way through school and deliberately slack off because they're cynical about the system do not change the world. Some do, but so do some people who work hard, apply themselves, and get as much as they can out of the broken system. In fact, I'm betting that more of the latter do, but that's just my opinion.

Re: School grades are hopelessly broken

#15

Post by maxklein »

Get this: Most people are not hypersmart creative individuals. They are normal people who need to learn some basic material about the world that they likely will never use because they don't care.

The grading system caters to them, and it's a pretty good indicator of which of those people is going to be able to successfully do a standard job placed in front of him.

School was made for average people, if you are so much above the average, then you can surely figure out a way to be the best in a system that is so much below you. If you failed a test designed for average people, then by that criteria, you are below average.

People that are very much above average do not need the grades, because they will have a lot to show for themselves anyways. People who are average need the grades, because they need a way of showing their ability to do work in comparison to their peers.

So the logic of the writer is fundamentally flawed, because assuming he is indeed above average, he cannot use the failure of the system on him to mean that the system fails for the average person.

Re: School grades are hopelessly broken

#16

Post by vitobcn »

I acknowledge there's a problem with the current grading system, yet I am still convinced that grades are correlated with one's aptitude/intelligence.

In my personal experience though, I only noticed the inflated grades problem in the US. While I was an undergrad engineering student in Spain there were some classes where not even 50% of the students passed, and overall, only 5% of them graduated with the minimum amount of time (5 years).

On the other hand, when pursuing graduate studies in the US, not only were the classes easier, but in many of them most people got A's. In my opinion, that defeats the purpose of grading.

Re: School grades are hopelessly broken

#17

Post by houseabsolute »

Among the people I knew in school, grades certainly were correlated with intelligence. There were some counter examples, me among them, but I don't blame anyone for weighting grades heavily when it filters out a big section of people who lack either the discipline or the intelligence to do well in school.

Re: School grades are hopelessly broken

#19

Post by hga »

grinich wrote: post #6

On the topic of grade inflation: In 1966, 22% of Harvard undergraduate students earned A's. By 1996, that figure rose to 46%. That same year, 82% of Harvard seniors graduated with honors. In 1973, 31% of all grades at Princeton were A's. By 1997 that rose to 43%. In 1997, only 12% of all grades given at Princeton were below the B range. (source: Source: American Academy of Arts & Sciences) One of the best things abou…

Well, I'd say it's an aspect of one of the best things, that MIT is firmly dedicated to meritocracy. If you belong in your department (and there is at least one for you) and put in the work, you'll get As and Bs and the degree at the end.

A reflection of this is that you are allowed a "saving throw" in your final semester: you can petition to graduate if you are lacking just one required course that you earned an F in that last semester. It must be "well earned", you have to have really tried, and I don't know how often the petition is granted but it is upon occasion.

Re: School grades are hopelessly broken

#20

Post by lolcraft »

wheaties wrote: post #2

Great, I wouldn't hire you. I don't care how smart you are. Just on the basis of effort you're willing to put forward on tasks you deem unimportant to you means that I can't trust you to perform tasks that I deem important to me. I need someone willing to work through "bullshit" tasks just as much as I need someone to work on "gee-whiz-wow" tasks.

If you are hiring for truly bullshit tasks, you are wasting your money. It's that simple.

On the other hand, maybe you wanted to say "boring tasks which are necessary". But don't they stop being bullshit, by definition, when there's some monetary incentive attached to them?

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