Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

news.ycombinator.com

641–650 of 717 posts

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#641

This thread is depressing, but I'll post my information: Company: small, non-startup software company in DFW Position: Senior Research Software Engineer Tenure: 4 years Experience: 14 years (4 EE, 2 non-IT SysE, 8 SwE) Salary: $92,500 (started at $78,000) Signing bonus: $0 Yearly bonus: $0 Stock: 0 Many of the comments here make me feel like I ab seriously underpaid. However, over the past several years in my interac…

Yeah that is low compared to the major tech hubs but sounds calibrated to the area you are living in.

It only takes one person to set a price provided they honestly believe in they value... and that person can be you.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My reply to the 'our company is doing so well, you will ALSO do very well once you bed in' is to remind them that most notable pay rises you ever get during your career is when you switch job. So negotiate your pay NOW because for all you know, you'll be stuck to that sort of level for X years to come if you are unlucky. As for 'shares' I flatly refuse to even consider that as part of a package. if they want to /add/…

How do you get business. Im thinking of consulting but I don't know where to start in selling myself.

Well, it's a matter of knowing a few people most of the time; a few agents you can 'trust', and then a small pool of returning clients who'll ask you to do stuff once a year or so...

The networking is always important, even as an employee -- always brush up your network, it might save your ass next time there is a shakeup at the company you work for, and might also give you the occasion to slam the door and move on if necessary.

I think there is nothing worse in life than waking up realizing you have to go to work to a job you hate, with people who are beepheads for a product that is a failure and going to the wall.... while knowing you don't have the freedom to just go.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#643
Tried the transparency bit. In larger companies like Amazon it might work because there's still a bit of anonymity. But for most companies large and small here's what happens:

Bob gets hired as a developer in 2012. He's been with the company for 4 years. Bob is a decent developer who gets his work done but makes the occasional mistake. Bob's title is application developer. When Bob got hired he took the job because the pay was as good if not better than his last job and the market was tough back then and he was happy to have the opportunity. Bob makes 50k a year and lives in Florida where the home office of the company is. Bob's title is software developer.

Fast forward to today:

The company is really taken off and they need to hire some top talent and have opened the doors to remote workers. John joined the team back in 2014 at 55k per year. John lives in Florida and is a mediocre developer. Sure he gets work done but it's often late or buggy. He tries hard and has shown much improvement and continues to every day. His title is software developer. There's a new IT manager and his job is to hire in some top talent to work with the current talent to get things moving. Prior to the hiring push the new IT manager sees the salaries currently and decides to bring salaries more in sync with what the market currently is at. As a result of this Bob, between his cost of living increases and this new pay bump is at 65k and John is at 60k.

As he can now look at remote workers he has feelers out around the country. An ace developer applies for a position and has some skills the company desperately needs. She is based in New York and demands a higher salary than the company traditionally pays because the cost of living is higher. The company approves her demands at 90k per year and she starts with the company, also with the title of software developer. Her name is Sally.

A month later the company decides to have transparency across the board with salaries and publishes everyone's salary.

John is immediately offended because in his mind (and by his title) he's doing the same job as Bob and Sally yet is making considerably less. Bob is upset because Sally just got hired and is making an extremely high amount more.

Each of them are considering their titles / positions. None of them are considering the individual situations that have led to the people making what they make.

So how should salary negotiations go. If the company is open and transparent, they should explain to John that basically he's not as good as the other developers so therefore he hasn't gotten the same cost of living increases etc. What he has been getting is an education and the opportunity to improve his craft.

Bob would need to know that he started low and it's just the nature of salaries to creep up the way they have. They'd have to discuss Sally's situation which frankly is none of Bob's business.

While all of them are valued employees, if they all made the same exact amount either it wouldn't be enough or the company would go broke quick. So they can either suck it up and deal with it or find a job elsewhere. They'll be disgruntled either way.

Remember your salary is your salary. Negotiate for what you think is fair. If you want a raise, ask for one. if you feel you should be brought up to current market rates, say so. Ultimately if you are not being treated fairly after giving the company ample opportunity to make it right and communicating with them, then find a new position. Finding out someone has something that is worth more than what you have will always make you want what they have, that's just human nature. Not disclosing salaries is more to keep harmony amongst the workers and people happy in their jobs and focused on THEIR OWN needs as opposed to just trying to get the same thing as someone else for whatever reason.

Are there companies who leverage this for nefarious purposes? Sure but you really shouldn't be working for those companies now should you?

The key here is communicate with your company. If you are valued they will try to accommodate you or at least give you a good reason, if you are met with resistance or reprecussions then maybe reexamine your relationship with them.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty interesting that so much of your compensation is in stock. After 2 years at MSFT and becoming a PM II, I was making ~$145k annually but $115k of that was in salary and $30k in stock. I think that's why everyone is surprised when they see the $70k. Do they give you the stock as a bonus at the end of the year, or are you promised it at the beginning and it gets doled out during the year? If it's the former,…

The stock is initially granted in the form of Restricted Stock Units (RSUs). RSUs vest according to a schedule. It looks roughly like this: 5% the first year 15% the second year 20% every six months thereafter Compensation at Amazon typically is a combination of a base salary, a signing bonus (distributed over time), and a stock grant. The package is structured in such a way that the employee's total pay stays consis…

Nah, the stock goes up enough that they say you got a 10% raise. Meanwhile the money you actually get in your pocket has dropped by more than 10%.

Fair enough I guess, but I am not a fan.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#645
post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience is that people tend to hate the employer, not the employee. Less, "You make more than me? You earn too much!" and more "You make more than me? I should be paid more!"

Yes, I think engineers tend to undervalue themselves when compared to many other professionals such as lawyers, traders and financiers. Perhaps it is because our work puts us is a position where we aren't able to practice our people skills (and negotiation skills) and we don't have good instincts when it comes to how the free market works (we get boxed in and caught up in our work and forget about the financial reali…

Business people and financiers exist to extract value from the people doing the actual work. That is the entire purpose of the position. They literally sit around most days devising new or better ways of extracting more value.

We should, therefore, not be surprised when the structure of organizations in their control reflect that reality.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you should share your salary with as many people as possible. This "don't share" policy is just a trick used by companies to keep labor costs down. If employees know each other's pay, they will start demanding raises - Then you get in a situation like in the finance sector where companies will be forced to pay big bonuses to hold on to important employees. Companies don't want that - They want their engineers…

So I read this a while ago and it really stood out in my mind. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/my-boss-revealed-everyones-salar... It's a question addressed to "Evil HR Lady" (didn't know that was a thing...) from a woman. Her new boss accidentally emailed a spreadsheet with everyone's salary to everyone. The spreadsheet revealed she was underpaid and was embarrassed and now wants the boss's head on a stick. This is the…

That's basically the best response anyone could have possibly written.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#648
post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shoot thats a good one I need to add to my list! Fake counteroffer from own employer. (Fake competing offer from a different company probably wouldn't work, because they would ask for an "offer letter". A counteroffer from current company isn't going to require proof)

I'm all for solid negotiating tactics, but if you consider telling an untruth, you are not welcome on my team. You may still find other teams in the world that you can dupe, but in the end, I expect lies to hurt your overall prospects (in life as well as work.)

> I'm all for solid negotiating tactics, but if you consider telling an untruth, you are not welcome on my team.

Do you seriously think your team is made of 100% people who only ever tell the truth?

Let's get realistic, we all tell lies here and there. What matters is what you lie about and why you do it.

I couldn't care less if a developer joins my team and lied to get a higher compensation. All I care about is whether they are a good hire and if they'll do good work.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I think it's worthwhile to include, as social proof. If another company was paying $X and was perfectly happy with the employee, $X plus a modest / reasonable $Y doesn't seem so crazy. It shows that you're not just pulling an unrealistic salary out of thin air.

Right, though I would put "scare quotes" around "proof", since from their perspective I could be making it up. (: When things get more serious, I sometimes go over my history of compensation with them. To me, it comes down to the question: does company X need me more than I need company X? For the right people with the right skills and the right experience, the "power" is with the potential employee.

Interesting, I've never ever shared my salary with another company, and been working two decades.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#650
post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience is that people tend to hate the employer, not the employee. Less, "You make more than me? You earn too much!" and more "You make more than me? I should be paid more!"

Yes, I think engineers tend to undervalue themselves when compared to many other professionals such as lawyers, traders and financiers. Perhaps it is because our work puts us is a position where we aren't able to practice our people skills (and negotiation skills) and we don't have good instincts when it comes to how the free market works (we get boxed in and caught up in our work and forget about the financial reali…

Not saying you're wrong, but I think it probably also has a lot to do with the fact that engineers, by training and often by personality, tend toward being "rational" in their worldview, which basically means looking for "reasons" for things, and wanting "reason" to prevail. Such a person would tend to set the value of his own labor at some rationally-supportable level, and would have a hard time coming up with a rational reason why he (or anyone else) needs or deserves to be paid more than that.

Whereas other types of people who are quicker to embrace "irrational" ideas of what they're worth, are more likely to ask for and therefore receive irrationally high salaries.

The reason it's hard to come up with a rational reason for a particular pay rate, is because no such reason exists in the real world. You can talk in terms of being paid proportionately for value created, but that's just an attempt to apply reason where it doesn't actually govern. Plenty of people are underpaid compared to the value they create, for no good reason: teachers, women, manufacturing workers, foreign sweatshop workers, open-sourcers - though willingly in the latter case.

What governs in setting labor prices is not reason, but all the gloriously irrational behavior of any and every marketplace, where people we denigrate as stupid idiots are basically like "oh look, shiny things." Well guess what, those shiny things - objects of desire - are worth a lot, even if rationally speaking they are crap. Never underestimate the Shiny Factor.

That's how someone ends up paid more for the same work for example. Like when a person from outside gets hired on at a higher rate for the same job being done for less by someone already in-house. The "reason" is simply that the new guy happened to be an "object of desire" (not currently working for the firm) which enhanced his Shiny Factor. As opposed to someone already on the payroll, dependably doing exactly the same thing - that guy, by his very dependability, actually has a lower Shiny Factor. To raise it, he needs to create a real threat of his leaving, and/or actually leave for somewhere else, and maybe come back.

Post reply on HN