First look inside Tesla's gigafactory • Hacker News Board

Re: First look inside Tesla's gigafactory

#11

Post by Roritharr » Sat, Mar 19, 2016, 4:56 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #10

forgetsusername wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're going to have a running Model 3 at the announcement. I guess we will see. The battery swap was also a "running" demonstration.

Yes? And then they built a swap station and it's in operation right now. They haven't rolled out any more because demand isn't there. Superchargers are good enough for most. But if you're implying that they hacked together a demo but don't have it actually working, that's not so

Demand? They haven't even rolled out a sensible businessmodel for the swapping stations that includes what happens if you receive a faulty or just old battery with less capacity.

Re: First look inside Tesla's gigafactory

#12

Post by ChuckMcM » Sat, Mar 19, 2016, 4:59 PM UTC

fukusa wrote: post #5

30 potential trackers on a single page and even the video player is a tracker.

It is a newspaper, those things which so fear being killed by the web have become some of the worst actors on the web. Sad really. Definitely gives the privacy badger something to play with while visiting the site.

Re: First look inside Tesla's gigafactory

#13

Post by ChuckMcM » Sat, Mar 19, 2016, 5:04 PM UTC

I think it was very smart of them to switch to a more modular plan. The original idea of just building it all at once seemed really crazy to me, not only would it lock down a bunch of capital, it takes time to develop the organizational skill to build stuff like this. Looking at Google's first data center and their later ones, so much learning in there.

The other question is how much was this "strategic threat" and how much actual plan. Something I still wonder about but if they actually start making batteries there it will answer that question too.

Re: First look inside Tesla's gigafactory

#14

Post by tymekpavel » Sat, Mar 19, 2016, 5:34 PM UTC

Roritharr wrote: post #11

mikeash wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? And then they built a swap station and it's in operation right now. They haven't rolled out any more because demand isn't there. Superchargers are good enough for most. But if you're implying that they hacked together a demo but don't have it actually working, that's not so

Demand? They haven't even rolled out a sensible businessmodel for the swapping stations that includes what happens if you receive a faulty or just old battery with less capacity.

During the pilot, if you receive an older battery you can take your car to a Tesla service center and they'll replace it with a new one.

Re: First look inside Tesla's gigafactory

#15

Post by mikeash » Sat, Mar 19, 2016, 5:45 PM UTC

Roritharr wrote: post #11

mikeash wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? And then they built a swap station and it's in operation right now. They haven't rolled out any more because demand isn't there. Superchargers are good enough for most. But if you're implying that they hacked together a demo but don't have it actually working, that's not so

Demand? They haven't even rolled out a sensible businessmodel for the swapping stations that includes what happens if you receive a faulty or just old battery with less capacity.

Why would they be stocking old or faulty batteries?

It's not something where you share with other people. You stop in and get a charged battery from Tesla. On your way back home, you stop again and get your original battery back, now charged.

Re: First look inside Tesla's gigafactory

#16

Post by digler999 » Sat, Mar 19, 2016, 7:02 PM UTC

Glad the newspaper photographers figured out how to cooperate with Tesla instead of trespassing and assaulting[1] them.

[1] http://www.rgj.com/story/news/2015/10/29/misdemeanor-charges...

Re: First look inside Tesla's gigafactory

#17

Post by mchahn » Sat, Mar 19, 2016, 7:13 PM UTC

There are two reasons for home batteries that I can think of. One is battery backup for power outages. How much market is there for that? It can't be large enough to justify Musk's humongous investment.

So that leaves the purpose of buffering solar energy collection. This dovetails with his cousin's Solar City outfit, which is growing like crazy.

I have a Solar City installation. I have no need for a battery because California makes my power company take excess juice I produce and give it back to me when I need it. The power company is effectively a big battery.

So batteries are only needed in states that don't make power companies do this. There has been a trend of states, like Nevada itself, taking back these laws. This is because it is considered a tax on homeowners who don't have solar.

Is Musk betting on the long-term demise of these laws?

Re: First look inside Tesla's gigafactory

#18

Post by theoh » Sat, Mar 19, 2016, 7:55 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #15

Roritharr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demand? They haven't even rolled out a sensible businessmodel for the swapping stations that includes what happens if you receive a faulty or just old battery with less capacity.

Why would they be stocking old or faulty batteries? It's not something where you share with other people. You stop in and get a charged battery from Tesla. On your way back home, you stop again and get your original battery back, now charged.

The usual argument that predicts problems with the quality of the batteries is based on Gresham's Law.

Re: First look inside Tesla's gigafactory

#19

Post by mikeash » Sat, Mar 19, 2016, 8:31 PM UTC

theoh wrote: post #18

mikeash wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they be stocking old or faulty batteries? It's not something where you share with other people. You stop in and get a charged battery from Tesla. On your way back home, you stop again and get your original battery back, now charged.

The usual argument that predicts problems with the quality of the batteries is based on Gresham's Law.

How would that apply here?

Re: First look inside Tesla's gigafactory

#20

Post by abalone » Sat, Mar 19, 2016, 8:42 PM UTC

mchahn wrote: post #17

There are two reasons for home batteries that I can think of. One is battery backup for power outages. How much market is there for that? It can't be large enough to justify Musk's humongous investment. So that leaves the purpose of buffering solar energy collection. This dovetails with his cousin's Solar City outfit, which is growing like crazy. I have a Solar City installation. I have no need for a battery because…

I'd agree that utilities ought to handle most of the energy storage problem, if only to realize economies of scale. But, two points:

1. Battery backup for homes could actually be a huge market. If you're looking at two homes, one is $500,000 and the other is $503,500 and outage-proof, which one would you buy? It's a nice feature at a relatively small price.

2. At the launch event Musk stressed the benefits of grid independence for the 3rd world. He drew an analogy with cell phones, where cell phone proliferation basically leapfrogged and obsoleted landline deployment. So in places where there is poor or no electrical grid they might jump straight to solar and batteries. (I don't know if he actually expects the 3rd world to be a significant customer base, but that's what he said.)