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Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

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Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#581

Post by vidarh »

tptacek wrote: post #269
dsr_ wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is another reason for a PIP: the employer thinks the employee has been doing their job badly but could do acceptably well. The PIP is the last available tool to get them back up to speed.

Most of the time, when your employer truly thinks that about you, they'll work on your improvement informally. I don't like saying this, but I think most people's best interests are served by the assumption that a PIP signals their employer's transition from "working to retain them" to "working to manage them out of the company".

In the places I've used PIP's we used them mainly on staff we hoped to get to a level where we could promote them. We didn't waste time on proper PIP's for people we wanted to manage out - for those people HR simply mandated no raises ever. They'd leave or gradually get cheap enough for what they delivered to be worth having around.

EDIT: It's worth noting that in these cases the staff in question also had clear evidence in the form of signed reviews rating them that they were performing well. E.g. the guy I spent most time on a performance improvement plan for was ranked "exceeds expectations" in every criteria three years in a row while I was there, and was given 15%+ raises each of those years. This was in Europe, but for a US company.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#582

Post by vidarh »

hodgesrm wrote: post #492
st3v3r wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, that's why at-will is a terrible end run around worker's rights.

How so? At-will cuts both ways. In countries like Finland as well as France it can be quite time-consuming to switch jobs due to the fact you have to give three months or more notice. That's leaving aside entirely the issue of how at will employment gives companies confidence to hire since they know they can shed employees if things go south. If you are looking for an end run try binding arbitration, which allows emp…

> How so?

Because the employer is at a massive advantage. For an employee having gaps in employment is a major thing when it comes to future employment, and can have massive effects on personal finances. For the employer, losing an employee a bit earlier is rarely a major issue (and if it is, they can generally convince people to stay a bit longer by throwing cash at the problem).

It is less relevant in high-paid positions where employees generally have the ability to put aside more of a cushion, but for lower paid employees it can be dramatic.

There's a reason the long notice periods in large parts of Europe are a direct result of decades of union pressure.

> That's leaving aside entirely the issue of how at will employment gives companies confidence to hire since they know they can shed employees if things go south.

If this was a real concern, then we ought to see a persistent problem of high unemployment across the countries with long notice periods, but to my knowledge we don't.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#583

Post by eitally »

throwawa998833 wrote: post #428
seattle_googler wrote: post #46

Seattle Googler here (throwaway account). Position: Senior Software Engineer (level 5) Tenure: 4 years, no prior experience Comp: $300K (160 salary, 40 bonus, 100 stock) Male, native English speaker P.S. We're hiring.

And not all Googlers make this little. I have the same position, in the bay area, and my pay structure is roughly: $180k/year 15% bonus ~ $30k/year 600 RSUs in the first year = $440,000 400 RSUs in the second year = $280,000 200 RSUs in 3rd and 4th year (assuming no refreshers, and oh boy there will be refreshers!) Male, native english speaker. It helps that my prior job had a comp level around $480k/year and also I…

But you received an abnormally huge initial RSU grant. It's uncommon for anyone to get more than 500-600 (outside of leadership) unless you're a strategic hire and they're compensating you for unvested stock at your current employer.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#584

Post by notalaser »

pyre wrote: post #425
HR0000000 wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Just as you can quit, walk out, and be done. For no reason. But they can't fire you for health reasons, personal reasons, etc.

> Yes. Just as you can quit, walk out, and be done. What is the flip-side to at-will employment though? Without at-will employment, do employees become slaves that cannot quit their job? Or are there only a small list of "legal" reasons for you to quit your job. I always see "well the employee can always leave at any time too," but is that really something that disappears in places without at-will employment?

> What is the flip-side to at-will employment though? Without at-will employment, do employees become slaves that cannot quit their job? Or are there only a small list of "legal" reasons for you to quit your job.

The following is true for a sizable part of Europe. The flip side(s!) are:

* I can't just walk out on a job, I have to give a 4-week notice (for any reason, though. It can be anything, from "I feel like I need a new challenge" to "I hate ever single one of you motherfuckers"), during which I'm expected to do my job more or less as usual. Everyone understands you're not as motivated, no one plans for major stuff to happen during someone's N-week notice.

* My employer has a small, but very open-ended list of reasons why he's allowed to fire me, which includes things like me underperforming (but he has to give proof that this actually happened -- i.e. he needs to have an actual evaluation process, has to warn me that I'm not performing as expected first and so on), shrinking clients base which means that they literally no longer need so many people and I drew the short stick and so on.

My employer is also required to give me a four-week notice, during which he has to pay me as usual, and he also has to pay for any vacation days I didn't take in this time (the idea being that I could have lounged in Belize instead of working my sorry ass at the office).

Furthermore, if I am being fired, my employer is also required to allow me to go to interviews during business hours (for obvious reasons).

Regulations vary from one country to another, but that's the gist of it. In general:

- Notices are typically 4 weeks for non-management positions and 6 weeks for management positions. The law around here allows these periods to be longer, but not shorter than this, and they're negotiated as part of the contract.

- However, they can be skipped by mutual agreement (i.e. if I want to leave right now and my employer doesn't have a problem with that, we sign an additional paper that says we both agree to leaving without a 4-week notice and I'm out).

- They don't apply for the duration of the test period at the beginning of an employment contract (if there is one). During that period (typically 3 months), both resignations and firings are effective immediately. I did it once, it' a very refreshing feeling :-).

I work for the European branch of a relatively small American company, which is how I've come to know all this. My colleagues from the US are mesmerized whenever they hear about these things.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#585

Post by kolistivra »

YetAnotherMSEng wrote: post #545
maybeunderpaid wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm SDE II an earn just a little more base than you ($117K). Judging by conversations with team members about which tax brackets we fall in and how much we save/invest per year, I'm fairly sure I'm underpaid for my level. There's a college hire PM in my team (not PM II, so he's either 59 or 60) who's single and in the 33% bracket. That means he's making at least $189K a year. Edit: I should add, my PM coworker could…

I've seen some outliers, but mostly in terms of promotion velocity. I assume you know about the "bench program"? (Microsoft Fight Club) That could potentially explain it. I really want to empathize with your underpaid for level statement, I certainly have a pile of stories, I'm just hesitant to tell them because they're rather identifying to anyone who knows me, so you'll have to trust when I say "A good number of us…

What's the "bench program"?

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#586

Post by eitally »

former_amazon wrote: post #72

I created a throw away account to answer this but I will say that my teammates at Amazon and I discussed salary openly. We all were making far below market except for the 2 teammates who had been there 4+ years. I think for lasting that long, Amazon really pays off in equity compensation which they dole out willingly (with 4 year cliffs of course). I made 90k as an SDE I straight of college. 20k sign on bonus. Second…

This is a key difference between Amazon & Google. At AMZN you have to be there 4 years before your comp levels off at acceptable levels. At GOOG they have a much nicer vesting schedule that starts your level comp after 12mo.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#587

Post by StephenConnell »

grogenaut wrote: post #527
diskcat wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because he's talking to you. He's not gonna tell you he despises you to your face. But secretly he wonders: "why does he get more than me, im smarter than him!!". This is then bottled up under 10 psi of pressure until the perfect moment when the slightest thing sets it off and creates a scene in the office.

Fyi standard temp and pressure at is 14 psi, so 10 is actually a slight vacuum. Or 10 over current is still not very much. Usually not enough to even explode. people can blow up to about 20psi, eg 6 psi over stp (otherwise we couldn't breathe). So it'd be more like a birthday baloon that flubbered around for 4 seconds and then went flat.

Interesting. So if my bike tire is at 10 lbs, is that 10 above atmosphere or just 10psi? I think a balloon flubbering arround for 4 seconds then going flat at the office would still be considered a scene. In fact I think your depiction is perfect. Ha.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#588

Post by yeureka »

I knew the UK salaries can't compare, but I wasn't aware the difference was so high.

It would be interesting to see the difference in pay in the same company between US and UK offices.

Looking at these numbers makes me wish I had moved to the US when I was younger.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#589

Post by guy_c »

nevir wrote: post #254
amazoniananon wrote: post #212

This is perfect timing as Google Seattle is hiring around 1000 devs and promotions are being revealed in April. I used a throwaway account, but I'm sure I'm identifiable by this information if my manager sees this. I'm not too concerned. I think it's in Amazon's and the employees' best interest for this stuff to be transparent. Besides that, while I like my work, I can easily get an offer from Google, Facebook or pre…

> 140 RSU (granted at signing, almost none vested) Is it still the ridiculous 5-10% year 1, 5-10% year 2, and then the rest spread out over years 3-4?

Why is it so ridiculous? Isn't it trying to serve as a retention incentive?

Obviously it can back-fire on the company. If the share price drops a lot then people that were planning on staying till the 6 monthly vesting may quit.

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