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Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

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Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#551

Mountain View Googler here: 1 year prior professional SWE experience at the time of hiring, CS undergrad degree from a state university Female, mixed ethnicity, American/native English speaker SWE II, L3 $110k base, ~$45k in stock, 15% target bonus ($172k total assuming stock price stays stable and I make said bonus) Worth noting that I tried not to give my then-current pay to the recruiter during the hiring process…

Here's a link for you. Recruiter in the story works at a different company. https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/2bu1id/m... Also if it's an electronic form then I put 1 dollar. It's fun.

Frustrating read. It wasn't in the form, she asked me over the phone after I passed the final interviewing step and they were going to extend an official offer. Good tip though, I've done that before and it's worked well.

I was at a disadvantage in that a) I didn't have any other job offers for a comparable company and wasn't likely to get them anytime soon (see: state university degree, just 1 year experience) and b) wasn't really willing to walk. My company at the time couldn't compete with Google. There was no better offer for me out there, career making opportunity, etc. So when I got told to take it or walk I took it.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#552
post #42
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to be simple economics and negotiation tactics to me. Backed up by the fact that it's such a taboo subject among coworkers, almost always for reasons of 'don't want to rock the boat' and 'don't want to get fired'. From a negotiation standpoint, the employer (generally) wants to hire, or give raises to, the employee at the lowest possible total cost. Whereas the employee (generally) want to be hired, or get a…

People value transparency, and it might be that they would prefer a lower salary at a more transparent workplace. In addition, providing wage transparency allows for further transparency in other business areas, such as gross margins, R&D costs, etc. which may be valuable in allowing employees to understand the business better and contribute in more meaningful ways. You are also only addressing the workers with below…

People value transparency, and it might be that they would prefer a lower salary at a more transparent workplace.

I specifically said above, "Where the cost analysis may not be the same for each side.". This obviously includes non-salary benefits (stock, vacation, flex time, home life balance, etc).

You are also only addressing the workers with below-average wages (who may be qualified for higher pay) when you say that secrecy helps employers.

I specifically said above, "The worst case scenario for the employee is to find out they are making significantly more money than their coworkers, in which case they have no further bargaining power.". As an employee, your bargaining power is not reduced if you have knowledge of that you are paid above the median. In other words, from the employees perspective, there is no situation where you are in a worse negotiating position due to having more salary information.

so I would assume that transparency could be used to bargain them down, as the below-median workers were helped in bargaining-up;

Note that when negotiating, the only party that is going to negotiate for lower wage is the employer (since it is generally unlikely that an existing employee is going to ask for a lower wage voluntarily). And from that position, the employer already knows all current salaries. If you are making substantially more than the other people, then the employer can (and likely would) reveal that information in order to help secure a lower raise (or also likely, no raise, and unlikely, a lower wage). That's the power of information asymmetry. The employer can use the information when it benefits them (reducing the size of a raise for an already high compensated employee), but withhold that information when it does not benefit them (when a low compensated employee is up for a raise).

don't know why we should assume it goes one way or the other.

We don't have to assume anything. This is basic economic and negotiating tactics.

I am not an advocate for wage transparency or opaqueness, because I don't know which way the effects go for anyone.

It's perfectly reasonable to have an opinion on wage transparency, but it seems a little odd to say "I don't know which way the effect go for anyone". We have negotiating models and frameworks specifically for this type of activity. And the general rule is, "The more information asymmetry that you have in your favor, the better your bargaining position". Specifically because it allows the party with the additional information to use that information when it benefits them, and withhold that information when it does not benefit them.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#553
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW I am basically in the same situation. My base pay is in the same region you describe for yours, and I rarely see offers that are even 80% of what my salary expectation is, let alone other forms of compensation and other benefits. I am in scientific computing and machine learning, and I actually love being an implementer and a coder. I don't want to be a people manager (mostly because I think all companies force…

Sorry this is off topic. Is there a way into machine learning without doing going and going an Ms or PhD? Im working my way through a coursera course on it but I'm not sure that is enough. All the positions I see are looking for academic experience or 5+ years doing it. Neither of which are doable for me.

I don't know how reproducible the approach is, but i'm working my way in from being a php developer previously. The company i work for is building a big data / machine learning platform from the ground up, and they bootstrapped the project from existing employees, including myself.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#554
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general I'd agree with you, but a ~$70k salary really is not that high for a decent developer with two years of experience, even with a signing bonus and stock options. I'm not in a major tech hub. Keep in mind also that Amazon is not some tiny startup strapped for cash. It's a big player in the industry and their hiring standards are rigorous.

$70k is severely underpaid for final comp. The OP said in a follow up comment that his total comp is close to $130k which is a very good wage.

Agreed, that's way under market. At Intuit's San Diego office in 2013, we were hiring college graduate software engineers for $75k base. Add another 15-20% for total comp (bonus, RSU, ESPP).

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#555
Honest question + comment + disclaimer

question:

why not add your info on glassdoor.com? (is there some evil behind glassdoor I don't know about?)

comment:

Probably worth noting general location of employment, like the metro region you're in.

disclaimer:

I've been researching salary myself in the bay area based on glassdoor data:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BoMvtY_mICEYygy0jXVG...

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#556
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full-time freelance audiobook editor? I didn't realize that was a position. What exactly does this entail and how did you get started with it?

I got my education in audio engineering at a leading music conservatory, so moving into audiobook editing was a pretty easy sell for me. An audiobook is made in four basic steps: 1. A voice actor records the narration for the book. 2. The editor takes the raw audio recordings and edits these files for pacing, flow, and aesthetic flavor. The editor also makes note of any errors in the narration which require a re-reco…

I wish you'd blog or do an AMA or something; your responses in this thread are fascinating.

(I discovered a couple years ago that I really like audiobooks.)

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#557

The most important thing you can do for your career is: * Accept a job somewhere * Get promoted (doesn't matter how) * let yourself get hired away from your current company Getting hired away from your current company is the only way to get a fair raise based on increased experience. Companies never give substantial raises to current employees.

Definitely not true, i have doubled my salary at my current employer through a combination of negotiation and normal pay raises. I never explicitly threatened to walk out, but i did point out when i was substantially below market rate, and that was enough.

I do think that overall switching employers makes it easier to get a raise, because a current employer is more likely to know your true market rate making it harder to convince them to pay you above that, or even at that rate (with them figuring you won't leave for a small difference).

You do have to be careful not to become a 'job hopper'. When i see a resume where somebody never stayed somewhere more than 18 months i'll figure we won't be any different and am less inclined to give a thumbs up to HR if that person needs a sizeable training investment from my part.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#558
post #464
post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes. Just as you can quit, walk out, and be done. What is the flip-side to at-will employment though? Without at-will employment, do employees become slaves that cannot quit their job? Or are there only a small list of "legal" reasons for you to quit your job. I always see "well the employee can always leave at any time too," but is that really something that disappears in places without at-will employment?

On the employee side, I think the alternative is Two week's notice. Not exactly "slaves," but with some structure for how to resign.

In Europe, a month is typical for junior, professional jobs, with this increasing to three months for senior positions.

You can, of course, not turn up to work. But that might well make you "unreliable" if you ask for a reference later. But it's not a problem, since a new employer giving a three month notice period will expect you to be on one at present.

(The notice period during the first 6 or 12 months is often less, eg 2-4 weeks.)

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#559
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW I am basically in the same situation. My base pay is in the same region you describe for yours, and I rarely see offers that are even 80% of what my salary expectation is, let alone other forms of compensation and other benefits. I am in scientific computing and machine learning, and I actually love being an implementer and a coder. I don't want to be a people manager (mostly because I think all companies force…

> I rarely see offers that are even 80% of what my salary expectation is I'm suspicious that this is a silent-evidence phenomenon. I'd assume that the duration a job listing is up correlates inversely proportional to the compensation. If that's true, all the great paying jobs are optically invisible.

A substantial proportion of jobs never even makes it onto job boards. And yes, higher paying jobs are often amongst them. I've been approached for jobs that have never been listed publicly several times. It's one of the reasons why it can pay to be on good terms with (the right type of) recruiters and (more importantly) have a good network of industry contacts.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#560
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the handful of cases where the company was OK with my non-answer about salary, and I went on to get all the way to a job offer, the salary ended up being entirely miscalibrated to a candidate of my skill and experience, and the overall interview process (which usually included some technical screens, programming tests, take-home tests, and long on-site technical interviews) was a massive waste of my time, not to m…

It's tough to decide where to leave this reply, and this seems like a good place to address a few things I've seen in the replies to my comment. Usually, my advice is "don't share you current or desired salary", but the one exception I've discussed with some people is when they're concerned they'll be low-balled. In those cases, I've suggested it might be better to just disclose your desired salary. I've been rethink…

Honestly, I still don't see a problem with stating a high number.

In my experience, refusing to agree on a range will inevitably lead to some lowball offers.

The strategy I've been using is to give out a range that is 1.5-2x what I'd be happy with. This anchors the conversation and quickly sifts out the employers who are not serious about attracting top talent.

Realistically, I never expect to get that 2x number and am certainly not leaving money on the table.

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