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Lufthansa jet and drone nearly collide near LAX

latimes.com

11–20 of 57 posts

Re: Lufthansa jet and drone nearly collide near LAX

#11
post #9

This might be a naive question, but what would happen if a hobby drone collided with a jet? As long as it doesn't hit the engines, wouldn't the damage be negligible?

I would imagine hitting the engine is probably the safest thing that could happen. The engines are made of titanium alloys and designed to not fail catastrophically. The rest of the aircraft is made of soft materials by comparison.

Re: Lufthansa jet and drone nearly collide near LAX

#12
post #9

This might be a naive question, but what would happen if a hobby drone collided with a jet? As long as it doesn't hit the engines, wouldn't the damage be negligible?

I would imagine hitting the engine is probably the safest thing that could happen. The engines are made of titanium alloys and designed to not fail catastrophically. The rest of the aircraft is made of soft materials by comparison.

And even in the event of an engine failure, they could still probably land safely.

Re: Lufthansa jet and drone nearly collide near LAX

#13
post #9

This might be a naive question, but what would happen if a hobby drone collided with a jet? As long as it doesn't hit the engines, wouldn't the damage be negligible?

Disclaimer: Aviation hobbyist but not an expert. It depends on the size of the drone and where it hits. I am not sure how large these drones are, but if they have the mass of a flock of large seagulls, say, it could disable an engine (like the US Airways jet). A collision with a wing could cause substantial damage to the wing which would change the aerodynamics, and that could be potentially dangerous at low altitude…

The airflow would be trying to prevent a collision with the front of the wing, and a drone would simply go where the wind blows. Which is to say if a drone flew straight for an airplane wing, it would fly around the wing and suddenly explode in the massive turbulence behind the wing. This would look very surprising because to the naked eye there is nothing behind the wing.

Hitting the fuselage, or entering an engine is probably more realistic. Both would be expensive, but won't be a threat to the passengers. Maybe hitting the wingtips would be doable ... not sure.

Re: Lufthansa jet and drone nearly collide near LAX

#14
post #5

Yesterday, we had this article on YC [1], from some economist at the anti-regulation Mercatus Institute, claiming that a drone strike was very, very unlikely. That guy assumed that drones are distributed randomly across airspace. In practice, they tend to be near where people live, which means cities and airports. I posted the FAA's list of drone sightings near LAX yesterday. Today, this. The pilot of the aircraft, a…

Keep in mind that there are definitions for these terms.

"near miss" means coming up on 200 meters distance between two objects if > 400 meters up, otherwise it means whatever the tower decides it means (and presumably for them it means being in controlled airspace at all, e.g. having a drone above the airport building itself)

Re: Lufthansa jet and drone nearly collide near LAX

#15
post #9

This might be a naive question, but what would happen if a hobby drone collided with a jet? As long as it doesn't hit the engines, wouldn't the damage be negligible?

I would imagine hitting the engine is probably the safest thing that could happen. The engines are made of titanium alloys and designed to not fail catastrophically. The rest of the aircraft is made of soft materials by comparison.

That seems like the least safe thing that could happen. If a drone hit the wing or windshield it would just break and fall to earth.

Re: Lufthansa jet and drone nearly collide near LAX

#16
post #14
post #5

Yesterday, we had this article on YC [1], from some economist at the anti-regulation Mercatus Institute, claiming that a drone strike was very, very unlikely. That guy assumed that drones are distributed randomly across airspace. In practice, they tend to be near where people live, which means cities and airports. I posted the FAA's list of drone sightings near LAX yesterday. Today, this. The pilot of the aircraft, a…

Keep in mind that there are definitions for these terms. "near miss" means coming up on 200 meters distance between two objects if > 400 meters up, otherwise it means whatever the tower decides it means (and presumably for them it means being in controlled airspace at all, e.g. having a drone above the airport building itself)

No. Any distance of up to 1,000 meters is "near miss" for uncontrolled (by tower) object around the passenger plane. There is no "but I was far enough" bs. Person than do not flight A LOT or do not pilot PASSENGER planes will never understand of the risks, stress and increasing field for error. Pilot, when preparing for landing is suppose to be 99% concentrated on whats below him.

Re: Lufthansa jet and drone nearly collide near LAX

#17
post #9

This might be a naive question, but what would happen if a hobby drone collided with a jet? As long as it doesn't hit the engines, wouldn't the damage be negligible?

Disclaimer: Aviation hobbyist but not an expert. It depends on the size of the drone and where it hits. I am not sure how large these drones are, but if they have the mass of a flock of large seagulls, say, it could disable an engine (like the US Airways jet). A collision with a wing could cause substantial damage to the wing which would change the aerodynamics, and that could be potentially dangerous at low altitude…

Anybody know what the protocol is in the event of a blown out windshield/windscreen?

Would the pilots be sucked out even at a low altitude such as 5k feet? Whether they are our aren't, how will the plane be landed?

Re: Lufthansa jet and drone nearly collide near LAX

#18
post #14
post #5

Yesterday, we had this article on YC [1], from some economist at the anti-regulation Mercatus Institute, claiming that a drone strike was very, very unlikely. That guy assumed that drones are distributed randomly across airspace. In practice, they tend to be near where people live, which means cities and airports. I posted the FAA's list of drone sightings near LAX yesterday. Today, this. The pilot of the aircraft, a…

Keep in mind that there are definitions for these terms. "near miss" means coming up on 200 meters distance between two objects if > 400 meters up, otherwise it means whatever the tower decides it means (and presumably for them it means being in controlled airspace at all, e.g. having a drone above the airport building itself)

Near miss: "The drone flew 200 feet over the aircraft, the Federal Aviation Administration said."

Re: Lufthansa jet and drone nearly collide near LAX

#19
post #9

This might be a naive question, but what would happen if a hobby drone collided with a jet? As long as it doesn't hit the engines, wouldn't the damage be negligible?

One thing to remember is that commercial jets have very thin aluminum skin. It's very unlike your car door which is typically thicker steel sheet. When jets crash the wreckage is shredded metal laying flat on the ground. So they're more fragile than they seem.

Re: Lufthansa jet and drone nearly collide near LAX

#20
post #9

This might be a naive question, but what would happen if a hobby drone collided with a jet? As long as it doesn't hit the engines, wouldn't the damage be negligible?

I would imagine hitting the engine is probably the safest thing that could happen. The engines are made of titanium alloys and designed to not fail catastrophically. The rest of the aircraft is made of soft materials by comparison.

A jet engine that ingests any metal object the size of a drone motor will take serious damage. The engine may continue to run, but there will be blade damage. Vibration sensors indicate how bad the problem is. Most likely, there will be an engine shutdown and a precautionary landing. The plane goes out of service, the engine is replaced, and the damaged engine goes in for a major overhaul.

The aircraft operator will be looking for someone to stick with the repair bill. Each engine on the A-380 today costs about $13 million.

That's the good case. Here's a picture of an A-6E which crashed after an engine ingested a pencil-sized hex wrench.[1]

[1] http://fodnews.com/fod-defined/

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