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Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

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Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There IS another solution to this. When someone asks how much you are currently making, you should flat out lie. They won't check. I've job hopped a bunch, and usually I just take whatever I was currently making, and add 15%, and say that that was my base. If employers are going to play negotiation games, you shouldn't feel bad about playing them too.

You do this and they catch you, you will be fired. I am a manager who believes in pay people more. Pay them what they want, not what they were making. That said, if you lie to me, I don't take it well.

Boo hoo. You try to manipulate someone and invade their privacy and then act offended when they lie. Pseufo-moral behavior like that earns zero respect.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#372
> I'm not aware of any Amazon policy which prohibits sharing one's own compensation, but I still made a throwaway.

IANAL but I'm pretty sure it's illegal as fsck for them to retaliate against you for discussing your compensation.

According to the National Labor Relations Act, enacted in 1935, private-sector employees have the right to engage in "concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection."

Again, I am not a lawyer. Just a bunch of pixels on the screen, really.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#373
Non Amazonian(final interview with Amazon) but had to chime in:

Based in AZ Base Pay: $80,000 Bonus: 12-15% holiday bonus My Experience: 2 years front end dev, self taught. Company: Won't name. But ~200 people in the company. 40ish engineers.

Interviewed with Amazon for Web Dev I . Each time salary was discussed, base range was for 85-115k, sign on of $10-25k and I can't recall stock. Confirmed with friends who work there, all are SDEs making 6 figures.

Throwaway account as well, just want those in my area anyways to be aware that earning potential is good.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#374
post #63

IMHO you're being underpaid quite a bit with that base salary in the Seattle area. Time to start interviewing at Microsoft, Google, etc. Those companies usually start fresh out of college developers with a base pay a bit over $100k, then bonuses, stock awards, etc. on top.

Only on HN are these incredible compensation packages considered "underpaid". In the real world (outside FaceGoogAmaWallstreet), the story for developers is quite different.

Outside of the actual software industry, sure. But rule #1 of getting paid well as a developer is to work for a software company.

It's not just the big few who pay really well. There are whole constellations of medium to small software companies you've never heard of that pay very well. The differentiator is that they see software as a strategic asset, not just a cost of doing business.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#375
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It's nowhere nearly that simple; you can say exactly the same thing about firing someone because they're black, or because they complained about sexual harassment. From experience (as a bystander), what really happens in a case like this is: * Employee is terminated * Employee believes they were terminated for a reason forbidden by state or federal law * Employee retains an employment lawyer, who drafts a letter…

There is another reason for a PIP: the employer thinks the employee has been doing their job badly but could do acceptably well. The PIP is the last available tool to get them back up to speed.

The PIP is paperwork to establish that you aren't being canned for a non-discriminatory reason. Period.

There is no self-improvement.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#376
post #348

A reminder to everyone that the National Labor Relations Act prohibits companies from firing employees for discussing their salaries: http://www.govdocs.com/can-employees-discuss-pay-salaries/

That's certainly true, and for most of us in the US, it's also true that as an at-will employee at a company, you're only protected by what the law covers . The list of things it doesn't cover is long enough that it's not terribly difficult to find a reason that is legal to cover-up the real reason. There's the bigger problem with sharing your salary openly: raises. My dad told me when I started working "Don't talk a…

Right. If you are underpaid, make noise. If you are overpaid, you deserve a target on your back for profiting off your coworkers.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#377

If you are good, just leave AMZN. I was underpaid there as SDE 2 and when I resigned, they threw $100k extra a year on the table to keep me but I still left anyway because I did not know what they would do to me if I stay. That $100k extra would put me close to $300k total a year.

they threw $100k extra a year on the table to keep me but I still left anyway

That was a smart move, especially if your skill-set was unique in your company. I've given this advice more times than I can think and I've been ignored at least half of the time. I can think of only one case where it worked out well, but that friend was a CEO at a multi-national and the board of directors was the salary decider. The others were gone within a year.

Be very suspicious if it's a huge increase in salary (or dwarfs your current offer), but generally any "counter offer" is not a good idea to take.

When you get a large counter offer, you have to think one thing: Why?

At first you may be inclined to think "It took me having a foot out the door before they finally valued me!" Unfortunately, what they've valued is the risk you represent. Within a few days, after your manager has discussed "contingency plans" for all of the things you did. You'll be spending the next few months making "the documentation a little more clear" and "cross-training" your colleagues. They may finally fill that position they've been promising to hire for to "give you some help". A few months of this will go on and someone in management will ask how your salary is justified (this will likely not be asked directly to you). Unfortunately, all you've been doing is documenting and training others, the real work that contributes to the bottom line has been ignored and you're now behind! How can they justify paying you so much if you're getting nothing done![1]

I even had a colleague who thought the answer was to turn down the job, take the increase and find another. It might have worked were it not for 2008. He went 6 months unemployed and took a job for a lot less than he was making prior to the increase (specifics were not offered or asked).

[1] It doesn't always (hopefully not even often) happen with such calculation or disregard, but a variation of this almost always plays out.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#378

A reminder to everyone that the National Labor Relations Act prohibits companies from firing employees for discussing their salaries: http://www.govdocs.com/can-employees-discuss-pay-salaries/

But not for divulging confidential information to the world, which is what the OP has done.

I pity the company who has a CTO who puts wishful thinking over the reality of law.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#379
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find tying my income to stock highly motivating :)

Maybe in a small company, where your efforts can have a direct, meaningful impact on the company's net worth. For a company as large as Amazon, though... there's so much going on, and so much of it completely unrelated to your personal work, that I feel like it'd be kind of meaningless unless you were in a really high-level management position.

Yup, and it's even worse than that, because the stock price also depends on things beyond the scope of your company entirely.

Your compensation can fluctuate based on what Janet Yellen says in a speech.

Re: Ask HN: How much do you make at Amazon? Here is how much I make at Amazon

#380
post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your anecdote is the exception to the rule. I've been in the industry for 20 years and can affirm the rule: you don't get raises from your current employer. You get raises by changing employers.

I second his anecdote. Have received large raises twice, but had to negotiate hard for it, with offers from outside in hand.

Ah, the outside offer is an absolute game changer, which IMO puts it in the same league as actually changing jobs. Often you have to show that you are willing and able to leave for a much better salary to actually get the much better salary.

If you are just internally lobbying for a salary increase at your existing employer, regardless of how successful you may be, how much revenue you are bringing in, etc. I would say at the vast majority of companies you will not see nearly the same raise as either presenting a compelling outside offer, or actually taking an outside offer.

Another way of thinking of it is that a company cannot pay their employees an arbitrary amount, it has to be justified up the chain, and usually that justification is based on "grades" or "scales" of some kind or another. Most of these scales will include a fixed range for annual raises. By bringing an outside offer, you are providing the necessary documentation that your manager, HR, all the way up the chain is required to actually sign off on the raise. The outside offer means no one is sticking their neck out to justify an out-of-spec raise, or claim someone was being previously underpaid, it's just a simple equation -- the employee has an offer, and the company can make a counter-offer or not.

Of course the trick is if they decline to counter, or counter low, you have to consider if you then leave, or stay? You also probably can't come back year after year with new outside offers, it's a trick you can only turn to so often.

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