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How Education is Ruining Your Life

davetroy.com

41–50 of 52 posts

Re: How Education is Ruining Your Life

#41
post #14

"Because of the reliance on the corporation, we set out to design an educational system in its mirror image. The linear journey from first to twelfth grade, then bachelor’s, master’s, and doctorate degrees systematized learning in a way that turned people into interchangeable parts and valued mobility." This is false. This progression predated the corporation. The present educational system has been influenced by the…

Perhaps the most accurate way to put it is that the same broad systemic forces that produced the corporation also produced the current educational system.

And the same broad systemic forces that is forcing us away from the corporate model, is also forcing, gradually, our educational system to change.

And as always, those of us living at the margins, feel the impending changes most keenly. I have a lot of friends who still feel quite comfortable within the current educational system.

Re: How Education is Ruining Your Life

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fundamental change due to industry: before modern education, it was the teacher's fault if the student didn't learn. You don't tell the local nobleman that his son and heir did a C- job. Today, we see education as an opportunity for students to demonstrate how hard they've worked, usually as part of the job-qualification process. Actual learning is still important, but secondary. (Will this be on the test?) Democra…

> Some of them were still pushing the geocentric universe at the time. OT: Have you heard of Relativity? What's wrong with choosing an arbitrary reference point to be local.

What's wrong with choosing an arbitrary reference point to be local.

Choosing a non-inertial reference frame would be the problem.

Relative velocities (including temporal velocity...) are essentially arbitrary, but acceleration is not; and the accelerating forces experienced by objects in the solar system are overwhelmingly dominated by the sun.

Re: How Education is Ruining Your Life

#43
In German, the notion of education (Bildung) is distinguished from training (Ausbildung). It seems to me that in English these two concepts are often intermingled and that, for historical reasons, a concept of education as Bildung is missing.

Anyway, the article is IMHO a weird mix of extreme right and left wing point of views. I particularly liked the fact that a Sir speaks in favour of an agricultural education system.

Re: How Education is Ruining Your Life

#44
post #35
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Another big thing I didn't mention explicitly is that college exposes students to people outside their comfort zone. Cross pollination of ideas and culture are hugely important if we want to stamp out racism, ignorance, and intolerance.

From your comment, it seems your political indoctrination is more important than cost (monetarily, level of quality, breaking of relationships, etc) of an education.

And where in gods name did you extract the notion of political indoctrination from my comment? So is it now the case that suggesting people should take an opportunity to live in new places around new people is considered a political statement or one that suggests that that experience is itself indoctrination?

Re: How Education is Ruining Your Life

#45
post #26
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are other things you need to learn beside what's in books, like how to live on your own, be responsible for your actions and so forth. Living away from the nest can be helpful in learning these things. I don't understand why this would make you "crazy."

Right. Another big thing I didn't mention explicitly is that college exposes students to people outside their comfort zone. Cross pollination of ideas and culture are hugely important if we want to stamp out racism, ignorance, and intolerance.

Does that actually happen, though? To a large extent, colleges are socioeconomically segregated much like high-schools are. Rich kids from private schools go to the Ivy League, poor kids go to state school or community college.

Re: How Education is Ruining Your Life

#46
post #7

While I agree with most of what he's saying, I think the solution doesn't start with education. Consider this: why did we create the education system as we know it today? Not for some altruistic desire to have an enlightened populace, but to fill the needs of our industrialized society. The change didn't come from within, it came from the corporate world. As long as companies keep requiring a minimum GPA and a degree…

Yeah, I think you would actually see more idealistic innovation in schools, especially those considered mid-tier in prestige, if they felt they could get away with it. As it stands now, schools below the top-tier are spending all their time worried that their grads won't be able to get jobs anywhere, so don't feel they can take any chances on something that would seem experimental and crazy. There's a lot of defensiveness and worry about seeming wacky or non-mainstream.

Re: How Education is Ruining Your Life

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some of them were still pushing the geocentric universe at the time. OT: Have you heard of Relativity? What's wrong with choosing an arbitrary reference point to be local.

What's wrong with choosing an arbitrary reference point to be local. Choosing a non-inertial reference frame would be the problem. Relative velocities (including temporal velocity...) are essentially arbitrary, but acceleration is not; and the accelerating forces experienced by objects in the solar system are overwhelmingly dominated by the sun.

Yes a non-IFoR is a problem but then then pretty much every point we'd want to choose is accelerating relative to us. I'd dispute that for the majority of people the sun's gravity is the dominating force - seems Earth's gravity is pretty dominant to me.

But I think I must have had my trolling hat on for this one, sorry.

Re: How Education is Ruining Your Life

#48
post #11

A common problem I have with articles like this is they are often coming from folks who had a horrible experience going through the contemporary educational system. This results in them throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and oscillating in the extreme opposite direction, trying to move us as far away from the way things are today as they can. At the risk of being called a South Park philosopher, I think for ed…

Complete aside: I'd never heard this term "South Park philosopher" before and it seems to be rare on Google. Did you make this up or did you hear it somewhere.

It's a good image. I understood it to mean splitting the difference and calling that wisdom, like the end of every South Park episode. Is that about right?

Re: How Education is Ruining Your Life

#49
I'm coming late to commenting on this, but I have to ask whether the cultivation of a sense of place is really a good idea. An "idea economy" functions best as an urban economy, preferably one composed along the lines proposed by Jane Jacobs; but the author of this work, as far as I can tell at least, has a "neo-agrarian" outlook that thinks in terms of villages, not cities -- if the defining characteristic of a village, including a "cluster of villages city" like Somerville in Boston, or Tokyo in the Edo period, is that one is fundamentally rooted to the village and unwilling to leave it even to pursue greater opportunities. Geographic immobility is not the friend of intellectual enterprise; just ask Paul Graham, who requires all Y Combinator startups to move to Silicon Valley (IIRC) for their initial stage.

So I think this proposal would make things worse, not better; it would be better to cultivate the "moral roots" of the final stage of the Freudian model of psychology (or of Zen, if it comes to that), which permit the individual to function well whatever his environment and whatever his social group or acquaintances.

Let me also point out that highly rooted village life encourages clannishness and asabiyya (the nasty variety, the type condemned by Muhammad, which includes nationalism, racism, and xenophobia), while rootless, urban life discourages it -- in favor of either purely personal selfishness, or objective moral standards. Obviously, the second, not the first, are what's to be pursued; but objective standards are much harder to attain in the village model of life.

Re: How Education is Ruining Your Life

#50
post #9

It's an interesting mishmash. Presumes educators won't adapt to the changing economy. Perhaps they won't, but consumers of education eventually will, and will find new educators. The bigger problem to me is that the skills needed in the future are not terribly obvious to most people. The devaluation of place argument is unusual. If I sit still what how will I be benefitting from repeated interaction with the local yo…

How different are the experiencing and remembering selves from the Freudian id and ego respectively, though?
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