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Unraveling of the tech hiring market

blogs.janestreet.com

31–40 of 70 posts

Re: Unraveling of the tech hiring market

#31
post #12

"But this year it seems like the seal is broken, and we've seen major companies delivering internship and full-time offers with 2 week (and less) hard deadlines. Other companies now routinely deliver expiring bonus offers for signing early. Many of these offers circumvent or outright break the guidelines set down by schools, and if past matching markets are a model for this one, next year will come with even earlier…

From personal experience, I can say that Google was only willing to extend an internship offer a week past their initial two week deadline. This is despite the fact that I was still interviewing with other companies at the time. From speaking with my university's career center I am not the only person this happened to.

Interesting. From "Work Rules" by Google's head of People Analytics. "I think they [exploding offers] put a lot of unfair pressure on the candidate, who should be free to make the best decision for herself without duress. After all, companies have lots of employees, but each person holds only one job. It should be one they are sure of."

Re: Unraveling of the tech hiring market

#32

Helpful context, since Jane Street may be an unfamiliar company to HN users: Jane Street is known as one of the companies with the most technically difficult interview processes, so that gives then a unique perspective regarding tech hiring.

Also, they work a lot in OCaml. There have been a few posts about OCaml and Jane Street here on HN, IIRC.

https://hn.algolia.com/?query=OCaml%20Jane%20Street&sort=byP...

Re: Unraveling of the tech hiring market

#33
post #25
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not really a high-frequency firm by most definitions. They use some high-level strategies that high-frequency firms also use (ie market making) and have some automation, but don't optimize for latency. Nothing about that is high-frequency trading per se —in many securities, you can make markets manually or semi-manually. Market making as a strategy is more like providing a service on the markets than it is li…

Depends, you can make more money as a market maker by expanding the spread than collapsing it. Though this is obviously a risky move.

How is your comment related to tikhonj's? It seems like a non-sequitur.

Re: Unraveling of the tech hiring market

#34

> In a matching market each person wants only one of each item, each item is unique, and each item can be given to at most one person at a time. Jobs are a classic matching market, and just like any market, matching markets can work well, or poorly. People may be unique but the dynamics of unraveling are showing either that they are fungible or that recruiters can convince themselves quickly that they are seeing some…

"Unraveling probably happens in dating too."

Absolutely does, but in my observations, this has lead to the dating market bifurcating. There are some people who are seemingly always in a new relationship, two weeks after they got out of the last one, which often exploded in flames 1-2 years after it started. And then there are some people who are really picky, who go years single before finding their soulmate, who also went years single.

The two groups largely don't intersect. When someone from the latter meets someone from the former, the former person tends to end up in a relationship with someone else well before the latter has made up their mind.

I wonder if something similar is happening in the job market. One set of candidates can't afford to be jobless long, and so they will pick the offer in hand without waiting to see if a better one is around the corner. Another set can afford to be picky, so every job search involves multiple competing offers, and they'll hold out for the job that they really, really want even if it means passing up good immediate opportunities. Oftentimes, because they hold out for a job that both compensates them well and makes them happy, they can afford to be picky in their next job search.

I wonder if Jane Street is trying to position itself in the latter camp and attract more candidates who are picky about their employer with this article.

Re: Unraveling of the tech hiring market

#35

Helpful context, since Jane Street may be an unfamiliar company to HN users: Jane Street is known as one of the companies with the most technically difficult interview processes, so that gives then a unique perspective regarding tech hiring.

Not only this, but they are well known to only recruit at a very particular set of top schools as well.

Meaning they are very selective? Their blog post says they consider anyone who applies.

Re: Unraveling of the tech hiring market

#36
I've been facing the opposite problem. I've been in a lengthy job search and despite being in a situation where I really need a job, I've been forced to reject all the offers that have been made -- because the working conditions are just too unhealthy.

The article mentions that a side effect of exploding offers is that you don't get to see the full landscape of opportunities and trade-offs you're facing before you make your decision.

On the other hand, after a year of job searching, hundreds of technical phone interviews, dozens of take-home & interactive code tests, and a significant number of job offers that I have turned down, what I can say is that I think I have a pretty good picture of the overall tech job market, and it is exceedingly depressing.

For instance, I have a mild case of misophonia, and so being seated in an open-plan office layout is simply not doable for me, physiologically, and listening to headphones obviously doesn't make sense if the problem is misophonia.

Many companies have been excited about my skills, experience, work ethic, and my ability to communicate.

But they have been 100% no-questions-asked outright indignant at the idea of a candidate negotiating the ability to work in a private office.

Even if I explain that it is related to misophonia, and the extreme aversion I have to ambient noises, conversations, small movements, and so forth, they don't seem to care. In all previous jobs, my teamwork ability and my effort spent collaborating was always praised as one of my best attributes. But in today's job market, collaboration == sitting in an open-plan office.

Far from worrying about exploding offers, I am worried about the overall industry shift that has happened to make it so that it is effectively impossible to work in a private space as a developer.

I feel bad for all of the intrinsically introverted people who are nonetheless excellent collaborators and developers -- the very nature of physical workspaces is harmful to their cognitive health, yet employers outright, under all circumstances, refuse to negotiate about it.

I've never been very interested in the idea of a software union. But the egregious lack of privacy in the workspace has made me start to feel like a union would be truly the only possible solution.

Re: Unraveling of the tech hiring market

#37
post #36

I've been facing the opposite problem. I've been in a lengthy job search and despite being in a situation where I really need a job, I've been forced to reject all the offers that have been made -- because the working conditions are just too unhealthy. The article mentions that a side effect of exploding offers is that you don't get to see the full landscape of opportunities and trade-offs you're facing before you ma…

How about consulting? Since consultants contract for the work they produce and not their availability to do the boss's bidding, most companies that hire them are much more amenable to remote work. It seems tailor-made for your situation - someone with good development and communication skills who doesn't want to work in an office.

Re: Unraveling of the tech hiring market

#38

This has always been a difficult challenge when job hunting for me, and I'd be curious to hear how others deal with this in their careers. Nearly every job offer I've encountered expects a response within a few days. In practice, I'm usually interviewing at multiple places and at different stages of the interview process at each. The 'exploding offer' system makes applying to multiple companies near impossible for th…

If the offer is one you are seriously interested in it is best to not flat out refuse an exploding offer. An alternative I have found effective is to stall a few days through further negotiation of the offer, with steps such as:

- I have some more questions about the work environment, can we setup a phone call with one of the developers

- I would like to learn more about company benefits, can you send me the relevant information about healthcare options and prices for my review

- the salary offer is slightly below my target, but I am willing to consider it if we can improve the PTO offer: is this a possibility

Re: Unraveling of the tech hiring market

#39
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only this, but they are well known to only recruit at a very particular set of top schools as well.

Meaning they are very selective? Their blog post says they consider anyone who applies.

The word "consider" is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

Re: Unraveling of the tech hiring market

#40
post #36

I've been facing the opposite problem. I've been in a lengthy job search and despite being in a situation where I really need a job, I've been forced to reject all the offers that have been made -- because the working conditions are just too unhealthy. The article mentions that a side effect of exploding offers is that you don't get to see the full landscape of opportunities and trade-offs you're facing before you ma…

Do noise-cancelling headphones not work for you?
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