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FingerIO: Using Active Sonar for Fine-Grained Finger Tracking

fingerio.cs.washington.edu

91–100 of 126 posts

Re: FingerIO: Using Active Sonar for Fine-Grained Finger Tracking

#91

I wonder how accurate it really is. The demo video didn't match up with the movements at all and the on-screen drawings looked like prerecorded video that they were trying to sync to. It's a neat idea, but without a dedicated component or an extremely high-speed RTOS, you're not going to come close to the level accuracy that's really needed to do the math and still allow interaction. I don't mean to rain on the parad…

> I just don't think they really have anything usable. I'm not sure that's the purpose. I wouldn't think of this as being intended to be a fully usable product right now. They could be intending it merely as an interesting experiment to explore new possibilities for interaction with mobile and wearable tech. Another CS student came up with a virtual keyboard using the iPhone's accelerometer[1]. It only had ~80% accur…

I bet you have RSI within a week banging on a desk like that.

If it comes down to using something other than your fingers, someone has the nose working as a user input device:

http://www.looknohands.me

Re: FingerIO: Using Active Sonar for Fine-Grained Finger Tracking

#92

I work with sonar and the physical positioning of the sensors is important in trying to get useful results. Why is it these academic types don't release the apks or software? Just publications and maybe a video.

It depends on the conference or journal they submit to. I typically request that authors release data and code in the review and the same is requested of me when I submit a paper for review. I don't know, maybe CHI doesn't have that sort of culture. Or maybe they do and these students just don't have the time right now and plan to do it right before the conference in May.

Re: FingerIO: Using Active Sonar for Fine-Grained Finger Tracking

#93
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the tech is great then wonderful, but I still remember LeapMotion...

Have you tried the Orion SDK? It's an order of magnitude improvement in tracking accuracy, even with the older hardware. https://developer.leapmotion.com/orion

Hmm, I'll have to try it out tonight. I have some 4-year-old v0.6 and v0.8 hardware in a drawer somewhere.

Re: FingerIO: Using Active Sonar for Fine-Grained Finger Tracking

#95
post #76
post #38

We need to immediately improve on PIN-code protection upon cash-withdrawal in ATMs. The problem has been there for a while, but man, it gets easier and easier.

Or be (not, it would seem) overly paranoid like me, my PIN patterns and entering do not involve moving my fingers horizontally, I put my hand down on the pad with my fingers on set keys, cover it with my wallet, and type it in. I also always double one key to make it that much harder to get by observation, a trick I learned from a sysadmin with major access to my school's systems back when we all had to use public te…

By keeping your fingers longer on the keys you're actually making it easier for the person after you to just take an IR shot of the keyboard and reduce their search space to 16 combinations or less.

Re: FingerIO: Using Active Sonar for Fine-Grained Finger Tracking

#97
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try asking these academic types for the data and source code. A lot of researchers are more than happy to discuss their work, but a big part of the academic industry is your research's impact and references. A way to get a better handle on who is looking at or following on with your work is to implicitly ask them to have a conversation with you before getting the whole kit 'n caboodle.

Additionally, a number of these research programs take the source code and make a go of a small business product.

And in many cases the universities own the IP associated with the research that goes on in their departments so they keep the source and treat it like a company would treat a trade secret. It's likely Washington will patent this and try to license the patents.

Re: FingerIO: Using Active Sonar for Fine-Grained Finger Tracking

#98

I wonder how accurate it really is. The demo video didn't match up with the movements at all and the on-screen drawings looked like prerecorded video that they were trying to sync to. It's a neat idea, but without a dedicated component or an extremely high-speed RTOS, you're not going to come close to the level accuracy that's really needed to do the math and still allow interaction. I don't mean to rain on the parad…

I would totally disagree. I don't think it would have to have much fidelity or low latency be insanely useful. The huge advantage is no extra hardware necessary. And maybe it might be hard for you to believe it could do what you want it to do but I'm guessing your vision is pretty narrow.

Re: FingerIO: Using Active Sonar for Fine-Grained Finger Tracking

#99
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or be (not, it would seem) overly paranoid like me, my PIN patterns and entering do not involve moving my fingers horizontally, I put my hand down on the pad with my fingers on set keys, cover it with my wallet, and type it in. I also always double one key to make it that much harder to get by observation, a trick I learned from a sysadmin with major access to my school's systems back when we all had to use public te…

By keeping your fingers longer on the keys you're actually making it easier for the person after you to just take an IR shot of the keyboard and reduce their search space to 16 combinations or less.

This is designed to foil garden variety skimmers now and in the foreseeable future, not someone "after" me. Who's going to go to that much trouble when there are I presume many many more people entering their PINS in ways that are easily skimmed?

Re: FingerIO: Using Active Sonar for Fine-Grained Finger Tracking

#100
Regarding everyone's latency concerns, as someone who has done low-latency audio processing on Android -- in their defense I'd bet almost anything the demo is meant to only demonstrate the math behind this. Depending on the platform (Android cough), low latency audio processing can be almost a dark art itself. And hey look, they're doing this on Android.

My guess is that they decided to release the demo earlier instead of spending days/weeks getting up to speed with low-latency audio processing in the Android JNI.

It's an academic demo/press release. Not a software release for production/market.

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