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Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

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Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#171

Post by cplanas »

hibikir wrote: post #76
mc32 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, educated and immigrants of means are a great addition to any economy they go to and a drain to the economies they leave. It's understandable why educated people might want to leave a country with few economic opportunities for their careers. What I'm not so clear on is what attracts educated people of means to emigrate to the US [and AU and UK] from otherwise stable mature economies? We're better off for them,…

I come from Spain, and the situation was very easy: Spain's cities have a midwest-like cost of living. A programmer there, right out of school, is what we call a mileurista: Someone with a take home of about a thousand Euros a month. In comparison, my first job in the midwest paid three times that. And that's the difference at the beginning of a career. Nobody programming over there will make more than, maybe, 3500 e…

As a fellow Spaniard, how you got to the US? H1B?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#172

Post by winter_blue »

jmspring wrote: post #147
dalke wrote: post #117

In a slightly older thread concerning this topic, at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11306290 I made some objections to this analysis. I think there's a fundamental problem in how to interpret this analysis. It says that a company is founded by an immigrant if there is at least one immigrant founder. This means that if 1 of 10 founders is foreign born, then it classified as immigrant founded. An aggregate calcul…

I'm jaded. But stories like this are planned to divert to things like what IBM are doing or job shops like Tata,etc. "Oh look at what immigrants are contributing in entrepreneurial sense, but ignore how big companies are moving jobs overseas." IBM and Disney, iconic US brands are at the for front of outsourcing local jobs using H1B scabs as the route.

Well, there are two groups of companies. Companies that can't find the talent that they need in this country, and companies trying to save money.

There definitely is a STEM shortage, and you are being really dishonest if you say there isn't. Ask any hiring manager at a tech company. Facebook, Microsoft, Google, and many, many other companies do not underpay or maltreat their visa-holding employees in any way. It is primarily this class of companies that are asking for an expansion in the number of visas.

Several bills have been introduced in Congress that would have (further) restricted the ability of the less-nice companies to underpay immigrants or displace native-born workers. For example, S.744 from the 113th Congress.

It is wrong to paint all companies with the same brush.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#173

Post by cplanas »

hibikir wrote: post #85
falsestprophet wrote: post #24

"These 44 companies, the study says, are collectively valued at $168 billion and create an average of roughly 760 jobs per company." Firstly, that's 33,000 jobs or about 0.0003% of the US workforce, so hardly the backbone of the economy. Secondly, the H1B program, the subject of the article, is not an immigration program but a guest worker program. Generally, H1B workers leave the country and don't go on to start com…

Nope, the H1B visa is THE immigration program. Every university will tell you that. The route used to go like this: Studying in an American university will get you an F1 visa, which gets you either a first job or an internship. Then, if you are any good, the only sensible way for your employer to retain you is to file for H1B. Back when I did it, it was really easy to get it (as opposed to today's 1/3 lottery). At th…

Good comment. Just a clarification: there is no path to the Green Card from L1B. There is a path from L1A, but I would guess they are a minority of the L1 visas.

So yes, H1 seems to be the one and only skilled immigration program.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#174

Post by [deleted] »

chiaro wrote: post #64
staunch wrote: post #6

These are not the downtrodden masses. Immigrant does not mean poor. These are wealthy upper class people coming to the most logical place to create a successful technology company, because they can afford to do so. Poor people are usually stuck wherever they are. Investors in Silicon Valley care a lot about status and pedigree. A foreigner that can afford elite credentials is far more likely to get funding than a poo…

>And of course H1B visas drive down wages. This is basic supply and demand. In the short run. The increased growth associated with them would typically lead to a general rise in wages in the long run. They also offset the tendency for companies to just move overseas.

[deleted]

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#175

Post by lgbr »

winter_blue wrote: post #136
adventured wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're reacting very strongly in each reply. It's a bit over the top, given you said this: > You are insinuating that "wealthy upper class" can immigrate without obeying visa rules. That is ridiculous. The parent you're replying to never said most families could afford that. The parent was indicating that you can buy your way into America, which you in fact can do. The wealthy upper class can buy their way in, and do…

He was responding to the article, but the WSJ article is not about the super-rich moving here. It is about the vast majority of skilled immigrants who have to go through the H-1B visa as a step in their immigration process.

> It is about the vast majority of skilled immigrants who have to go through the H-1B visa as a step in their immigration process.

They don't have to go through the H-1B process. Generally, wealthy people are people don't just have good jobs and money, they also have connections, are attractive, and hold citizenship from wealthy countries, all things that make it much easier to come to the US.

Their connections allow them a number of ways into the US (Everything from an A visa for family members of foreign government employees, to L visas for inter company transfers, to an O visa for various types of talent). If they're attractive enough it's common that they'd marry an American (or commit immigration fraud, which is common enough). Lastly, if they're from a wealthy country, their chances of winning the diversity lottery are actually quite high.

The paths into the US are convoluted, but numerous.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#176

Post by NetStrikeForce »

staunch wrote: post #6

These are not the downtrodden masses. Immigrant does not mean poor. These are wealthy upper class people coming to the most logical place to create a successful technology company, because they can afford to do so. Poor people are usually stuck wherever they are. Investors in Silicon Valley care a lot about status and pedigree. A foreigner that can afford elite credentials is far more likely to get funding than a poo…

> And of course H1B visas drive down wages. This is basic supply and demand.

Unless those H1B holders create 10 extra work positions on average, then H1B visas will drive up wages. Basic supply and demand.

Both your statement and mine are incorrect or, at least, incomplete. There's no such thing as "basic" supply and demand.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#177

Post by dalke »

winter_blue wrote: post #170
mmargerum wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "Scab" in this context refers to non union workers employers would bring in to end a strike or bust up a union.

How on earth does the context imply "non union workers employers would bring in to end a strike"? The context does not say anything of the sort. FYI: I believe employers are supposed to attest that there is no strike going on at their workplace, and the H-1 or H-2 visa holders are not being hired to end a strike. I remember reading this regulation somewhere. That being said, I've never heard of strikes occurring in S…

You understood neither the original term "scab", as short for "scab worker", which is a derogatory term for strikebreaker, nor the use in this context as a metaphor, in this case likely meaning for people willing to work at cut-rate wage to replace a worker who thinks those wages are unjust.

For example, originally "carpetbagger" was used specifically for a Northern who went the South after the US Civil war, and were seen as doing so to advance personal power or profits. It's since acquired a much broader, though still pejorative, meaning.

Since you don't have much experience with the term, you might need to research more about how it's used in the broader context.

Some strikes in STEM fields include the Boeing machinists strike of 2008 by the Society of Professional Engineering Employees in Aerospace, the 2007 United Space Alliance strike by members of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, and the 2015 WCAU Photographers and Camera Operators Strike by the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. Probably the most famous STEM strike in the US is the air traffic controller strike by PATCO in 1981.

For smaller examples just from 2015, here's a partial strike by medical physicists in Australia - http://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/un-doctored/2015/june-2015/02/Medi... . Here's a strike by medical doctors at University of California campuses in Southern California - http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-doctors-strike-u... . Here's a programmer strike in India - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kozhikode/Computer-p... .

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#178

Post by bardworx »

_ea1k wrote: post #81
bardworx wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Immigrants are a self-selecting group I find this offensive, as an immigrant. Also, my mother (and sister) worked in a sweat shop (they needle thread tags on imported/fake clothes underneath a laundromat) to put food on the table while going to school. My mother didn't "sacrifice" everything for us, she worked hard; became a programmer; and didn't allow my sibling and I to work less then her. > There's a joke in my…

>> Immigrants are a self-selecting group > I find this offensive, as an immigrant. I am baffled as to what part of that is offensive. That immigrants choose to immigrate and put in the hard work to make that work out? Or are you objecting to the ideas that there are high barriers to immigration? Maybe I am just misreading something, but I am confused.

Re-reading the comment, I mistook the "tone". Originally, I understood as "You choose to immigrate and it's easy, we'll all become doctors and lawyers".

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#179

Post by [deleted] »

_ea1k wrote: post #81
bardworx wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Immigrants are a self-selecting group I find this offensive, as an immigrant. Also, my mother (and sister) worked in a sweat shop (they needle thread tags on imported/fake clothes underneath a laundromat) to put food on the table while going to school. My mother didn't "sacrifice" everything for us, she worked hard; became a programmer; and didn't allow my sibling and I to work less then her. > There's a joke in my…

>> Immigrants are a self-selecting group > I find this offensive, as an immigrant. I am baffled as to what part of that is offensive. That immigrants choose to immigrate and put in the hard work to make that work out? Or are you objecting to the ideas that there are high barriers to immigration? Maybe I am just misreading something, but I am confused.

[deleted]

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#180

Post by bardworx »

mistermann wrote: post #121
bardworx wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Immigrants are a self-selecting group I find this offensive, as an immigrant. Also, my mother (and sister) worked in a sweat shop (they needle thread tags on imported/fake clothes underneath a laundromat) to put food on the table while going to school. My mother didn't "sacrifice" everything for us, she worked hard; became a programmer; and didn't allow my sibling and I to work less then her. > There's a joke in my…

I think you're being downvoted because you seem to disagree with the comment to which you're responding, but I think you probably just accidentally misunderstood it?

Yup, reflection points to a misunderstanding on my part. I perceived the comment with negativity, which I don't believe was the intention.
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