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Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

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Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#161

Post by dalke »

winter_blue wrote: post #159
dalke wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What neither the article nor the underlying report resolve is, do immigrant founders of $1B+ companies representative of the same population of H1-B visa recipients? For example, many of the founders came to the US to go to school in the US, including Harvard. Is that reflective of the general population of H1-B visa holders? If not, can the conclusions drawn from the very small number of $1B+ startups be used to mak…

> do immigrant founders of $1B+ companies representative of the same population of H1-B visa recipients? You make a very good point here. The thing is that it is absolutely impossible to filter or select for future $1B+ startup founders. Most immigrant tech startup founders in the Bay Area first come to the US as foreign students. They then get a job like most people, but also have to go through a long and difficult…

The report described by the WSJ made that association which you and I agree is not reasonable to make.

While you are correct about official data, my comment concerns the report. The report identifies immigrant founders by college degree, including John Collison, Daniel Saks, Mario Schlosser, and Michelle Zatlyn, all from Harvard.

4/60 immigrant founders of $1B+ startups have a Harvard education. I do not think 6.7% of H1-B visa holders have a Harvard education.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#162

Post by hodgesrm »

someguydave wrote: post #53
Dr_tldr wrote: post #9

It's no secret that the continuing economic dominance of the US is not due to a post-WW2 windfall or the unique capabilities of Americans, but more to the ability of the US to attract and retain the very best, and then subsequently give them unique opportunities. Few nativists are opposed to the best and the brightest (and the already-wealthy) coming to the US in very, very small numbers, but what they don't realize…

>but what they don't realize is that it's pretty much impossible to tell in advance who's going to be a winning lottery ticket. Agreed, it's difficult to tell in advance. One way of skewing the odds in favor of the US is to just sell visas to the highest bidder.

How does that help get people like Andy Grove (from Intel)? As I recall he was penniless when he made it to the US in the 1950s.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#163

Post by tosseraccount »

beambot wrote: post #157
jmspring wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm jaded. But stories like this are planned to divert to things like what IBM are doing or job shops like Tata,etc. "Oh look at what immigrants are contributing in entrepreneurial sense, but ignore how big companies are moving jobs overseas." IBM and Disney, iconic US brands are at the for front of outsourcing local jobs using H1B scabs as the route.

Right idea (being jaded) but wrong reason. It's more likely a political jab at the various GOP candidates' opinions about H1Bs.

Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Hillary Clinton, and John Kasich are firm supporters of expansion of guest worker visas.

Trump and Sanders oppose.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#164

Post by winter_blue »

dalke wrote: post #161
winter_blue wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> do immigrant founders of $1B+ companies representative of the same population of H1-B visa recipients? You make a very good point here. The thing is that it is absolutely impossible to filter or select for future $1B+ startup founders. Most immigrant tech startup founders in the Bay Area first come to the US as foreign students. They then get a job like most people, but also have to go through a long and difficult…

The report described by the WSJ made that association which you and I agree is not reasonable to make. While you are correct about official data, my comment concerns the report. The report identifies immigrant founders by college degree, including John Collison, Daniel Saks, Mario Schlosser, and Michelle Zatlyn, all from Harvard. 4/60 immigrant founders of $1B+ startups have a Harvard education. I do not think 6.7% o…

I agree that it's unlikely that 6.7% of H-1B visa holders have a Harvard education. But about half the founders listed in the report[1] went to non-famous colleges.

The broader policy question raised by the report however is about the current extremely restrictive low limit of 85,000 on H-1B visas, which are crucial for any immigrant student to be able to stay in the US. The report tries to show one way in which immigrants are helpful, and yes it does focus very much on the most successful immigrants. That doesn't mean they don't have a valid point.

85,000 is less than 0.03% of the US population. Australia, with a population of 23 million, issued 120,000 skilled work visas in 2013. That is 0.5%. Nearly every other first-world country has a higher rate of skilled worker immigration than the United States. We keep it artificially down with the quotas. We determine the fate and future of an immigrant student in this country with a lottery, which to most people might sound like a cruel joke.

[1] http://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Immigrants-and-Bi...

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#165

Post by imtringued »

bardworx wrote: post #75
Robelius wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigrants are a self-selecting group. The barriers you have to cross leave the most motivated individuals/families capable of coming here. The immigrating generation, at least from my experience, come with the intention of setting up their children with better possibilities. Their lives revolve around making their kids hard workers in school, which transfers over into their character. There's a joke in my community…

> Immigrants are a self-selecting group I find this offensive, as an immigrant. Also, my mother (and sister) worked in a sweat shop (they needle thread tags on imported/fake clothes underneath a laundromat) to put food on the table while going to school. My mother didn't "sacrifice" everything for us, she worked hard; became a programmer; and didn't allow my sibling and I to work less then her. > There's a joke in my…

Would you want to emigrate to china and work in a sweatshop? No?

Would you want to go to the US for a high paying software job? Yes!

That's self selection. There is nothing bad about this but ignoring this leads to biased statistics.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#166

Post by winter_blue »

tosseraccount wrote: post #163
beambot wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right idea (being jaded) but wrong reason. It's more likely a political jab at the various GOP candidates' opinions about H1Bs.

Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Hillary Clinton, and John Kasich are firm supporters of expansion of guest worker visas. Trump and Sanders oppose.

The H-1B is a dual-intent[1] temporary work visa, and most H-1B visa holders intend to stay here permanently, and eventually are sponsored green cards (permanent residency) by their employers.

Rubio, Cruz, et al have called for legislation that punishes employers that do not sponsor green cards for their H-1B employees (by restricting their ability to hire more H-1B workers).

So, no, most of them do not support "guest worker visas". They support permanent skilled immigration.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#167

Post by winter_blue »

jmspring wrote: post #147
dalke wrote: post #117

In a slightly older thread concerning this topic, at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11306290 I made some objections to this analysis. I think there's a fundamental problem in how to interpret this analysis. It says that a company is founded by an immigrant if there is at least one immigrant founder. This means that if 1 of 10 founders is foreign born, then it classified as immigrant founded. An aggregate calcul…

I'm jaded. But stories like this are planned to divert to things like what IBM are doing or job shops like Tata,etc. "Oh look at what immigrants are contributing in entrepreneurial sense, but ignore how big companies are moving jobs overseas." IBM and Disney, iconic US brands are at the for front of outsourcing local jobs using H1B scabs as the route.

Wow, "scab" is a strong word. I was only familiar with the wound-related definition, so I had to look it up. The Google definition is: "a person or thing regarded with dislike and disgust".

So I guess you regard me and the many other immigrants to the US with "dislike and disgust".

It is a shame that you hold immigrants in such contempt, but I am confidant that the majority of Americans are not as hateful and "disgust"-filled as you are.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#168

Post by mmargerum »

winter_blue wrote: post #167
jmspring wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm jaded. But stories like this are planned to divert to things like what IBM are doing or job shops like Tata,etc. "Oh look at what immigrants are contributing in entrepreneurial sense, but ignore how big companies are moving jobs overseas." IBM and Disney, iconic US brands are at the for front of outsourcing local jobs using H1B scabs as the route.

Wow, "scab" is a strong word. I was only familiar with the wound-related definition, so I had to look it up. The Google definition is: " a person or thing regarded with dislike and disgust ". So I guess you regard me and the many other immigrants to the US with "dislike and disgust". It is a shame that you hold immigrants in such contempt, but I am confidant that the majority of Americans are not as hateful and "disg…

I think "Scab" in this context refers to non union workers employers would bring in to end a strike or bust up a union.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#169

Post by cplanas »

tonyhb wrote: post #135
dalke wrote: post #117

In a slightly older thread concerning this topic, at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11306290 I made some objections to this analysis. I think there's a fundamental problem in how to interpret this analysis. It says that a company is founded by an immigrant if there is at least one immigrant founder. This means that if 1 of 10 founders is foreign born, then it classified as immigrant founded. An aggregate calcul…

Conversely, if a two person company were founded by two immigrants it would beat the odds. The chances of two founders meeting, working together, then creating a 1B+ company in the adversary of worse contacts is smaller. In fact, moving to this country and making a 1B+ country takes more work than being born here. Take a look at statistics at people from well-off backgrounds or with contacts vs people with nothing.

You are supposing that an American company needs to have been founded in the US. That's not true. There are many tech companies, including 1B+ ones, that were founded out of the US and then moved there. The availability of capital is so great in the US -even comparing with Europe- that makes a lot of sense to move there.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#170

Post by winter_blue »

mmargerum wrote: post #168
winter_blue wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, "scab" is a strong word. I was only familiar with the wound-related definition, so I had to look it up. The Google definition is: " a person or thing regarded with dislike and disgust ". So I guess you regard me and the many other immigrants to the US with "dislike and disgust". It is a shame that you hold immigrants in such contempt, but I am confidant that the majority of Americans are not as hateful and "disg…

I think "Scab" in this context refers to non union workers employers would bring in to end a strike or bust up a union.

How on earth does the context imply "non union workers employers would bring in to end a strike"? The context does not say anything of the sort.

FYI: I believe employers are supposed to attest that there is no strike going on at their workplace, and the H-1 or H-2 visa holders are not being hired to end a strike. I remember reading this regulation somewhere. That being said, I've never heard of strikes occurring in STEM fields.

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