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Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

wsj.com

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Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#141
post #135
post #117

In a slightly older thread concerning this topic, at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11306290 I made some objections to this analysis. I think there's a fundamental problem in how to interpret this analysis. It says that a company is founded by an immigrant if there is at least one immigrant founder. This means that if 1 of 10 founders is foreign born, then it classified as immigrant founded. An aggregate calcul…

Conversely, if a two person company were founded by two immigrants it would beat the odds. The chances of two founders meeting, working together, then creating a 1B+ company in the adversary of worse contacts is smaller. In fact, moving to this country and making a 1B+ country takes more work than being born here. Take a look at statistics at people from well-off backgrounds or with contacts vs people with nothing.

I do not believe that adversity builds strength which leads to success, which I believe is your argument.

I won't believe it until we start seeing the schools of the children of the successful put arbitrary and even petulant roadblocks in the way of the students, and deliberately teaching to far below the level the students can handle.

Anecdotally speaking, as an American immigrant to Sweden, I do not think the adversity I faced has made me as successful as I would have been had I stayed the US.

Certainly some succeed despite adversity, and even draw strength from it, but to highlight those few is to make faceless the many who did not.

In any case, the report argues that diversity leads to robustness which leads to success. This is a very different view, designed more, I think, to appeal to the current pro-diversity trend rather than a group which might prefer the meaning behind "spare the rod, spoil the child."

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah just go on and make up shit as long as it makes you feel better. The foreigner that can "afford" elite credentials is actually a foreigner from a humble background who came through the most competitive process in the world and managed to get scholarship in a US graduate school. It's obvious that whoever you are, you haven't actually tried to get to know anything about these pesky foreigners'(who probably work wi…

Sundar's father was an engineer, not a typical person in India. Or even America. When I worked in tech, I knew exactly one engineer from a low class background (American). It was eye opening seeing first hand how rare people of non educated backgrounds are in tech. I'm no exception, all but one of my grand parents was educated.

An "engineer" doesn't necessarily mean high wages and insane perks as today's software industry has taught us to believe. A civil, mechanical, electrical or metallurgical engineer working in some government department in India is the very definition of a humble middle class life. And I mean middle class by Indian standards. That same article I linked to above has the following tidbit.

"Yet simply getting there was difficult. His parents, who had always ensured their two boys got the best education they could afford, ended up withdrawing £1,000 - more than Regunatha earned in a year - to put him on the plane."

Rest assured, Sundar wasn't some rich foreigner (as in the fevered imagination of GP commenter @staunch) who's parents got him admission to top schools to ease his path in the world.

But here's the kicker, of all the Indian immigrants I know in the valley (source: am one myself), a majority come from backgrounds humbler than Sundars. For one thing, being born to technically educated parents is not at all typical. Not even among the population of immigrant software engineers. I don't know what your definition of "low class" is. But if you're looking for software engineers who grew up in one room houses with 2-3 siblings who's parents were barely making ends meet while providing the best education they could to their kids, just walk upto any group of 4-5 Indian immigrants you see in the valley. You'll find at least one or two such folks in every such group (source: am one myself).

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're reacting very strongly in each reply. It's a bit over the top, given you said this: > You are insinuating that "wealthy upper class" can immigrate without obeying visa rules. That is ridiculous. The parent you're replying to never said most families could afford that. The parent was indicating that you can buy your way into America, which you in fact can do. The wealthy upper class can buy their way in, and do…

He was responding to the article, but the WSJ article is not about the super-rich moving here. It is about the vast majority of skilled immigrants who have to go through the H-1B visa as a step in their immigration process.

What neither the article nor the underlying report resolve is, do immigrant founders of $1B+ companies representative of the same population of H1-B visa recipients?

For example, many of the founders came to the US to go to school in the US, including Harvard. Is that reflective of the general population of H1-B visa holders? If not, can the conclusions drawn from the very small number of $1B+ startups be used to make policy decisions about the vast majority of skilled immigrants?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#145
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increasing H1B caps does help immigrant founders who aren't already millionaires. I've been on an H1B visa and I've started my own startup. You can be on an H1B for your own company so long as it's clear there is a board that can fire you. There's two ways to go about making it easier for immigrant founders to work legally in America: create a new startup visa class that is likely ridiculously nebulous, or increase t…

There are more ways. For example, preventing bodyshops like Tata et al from taking all visas every year. While it's profitable to abuse the system the system is going to be abused. It's not like USCIS is oblivious to what's going on, if it were told to enforce the law, I am pretty sure, it would have complied.

Maybe, but the cap is so oversubscribed now that even if they were banned, and even if the 1/3 of the H1B visas those kinds of consultancies take went to someone else, there's still no more guarantee you'd make the lottery/cap.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#146
post #101

> These 44 companies, the study says, are collectively valued at $168 billion and create an average of roughly 760 jobs per company in the U.S. $168B divided by 760 employees: $220M of value created per job. If there's no error in the numbers, that means that employees at these startups are tremendously underpaid, in spite of probably making above-market salaries.

Isn't the number 760 employees PER company? That would make the total as 760*44=33,440 employees.

Haha yes, you are right.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#147
post #117

In a slightly older thread concerning this topic, at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11306290 I made some objections to this analysis. I think there's a fundamental problem in how to interpret this analysis. It says that a company is founded by an immigrant if there is at least one immigrant founder. This means that if 1 of 10 founders is foreign born, then it classified as immigrant founded. An aggregate calcul…

I'm jaded. But stories like this are planned to divert to things like what IBM are doing or job shops like Tata,etc.

"Oh look at what immigrants are contributing in entrepreneurial sense, but ignore how big companies are moving jobs overseas."

IBM and Disney, iconic US brands are at the for front of outsourcing local jobs using H1B scabs as the route.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#148
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are more ways. For example, preventing bodyshops like Tata et al from taking all visas every year. While it's profitable to abuse the system the system is going to be abused. It's not like USCIS is oblivious to what's going on, if it were told to enforce the law, I am pretty sure, it would have complied.

Maybe, but the cap is so oversubscribed now that even if they were banned, and even if the 1/3 of the H1B visas those kinds of consultancies take went to someone else, there's still no more guarantee you'd make the lottery/cap.

This year Infosys, Tata, Wipro and IBM submitted more than 65000 applications [1] (which is the current cap). And these are not the only bodyshops in the running. If the law had been enforced then there had been plenty of H1-Bs to go around the year (or, at least till October/November) without a lottery like it always happens in the years when the "consulters" get cut due to poor economy.

1. http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2016-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#149
post #141
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, if a two person company were founded by two immigrants it would beat the odds. The chances of two founders meeting, working together, then creating a 1B+ company in the adversary of worse contacts is smaller. In fact, moving to this country and making a 1B+ country takes more work than being born here. Take a look at statistics at people from well-off backgrounds or with contacts vs people with nothing.

I do not believe that adversity builds strength which leads to success, which I believe is your argument. I won't believe it until we start seeing the schools of the children of the successful put arbitrary and even petulant roadblocks in the way of the students, and deliberately teaching to far below the level the students can handle. Anecdotally speaking, as an American immigrant to Sweden, I do not think the adver…

Educated ambitious people of other countries move and work to somewhere where the opportunities are greater, and are willing to do so, leaving their home countries and families.

This is a filter which causes these immigrants to be successful compared to the average disadvantaged unmotivated american. It's the old high vs low skill immigration debate.

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