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Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

wsj.com

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Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#111
post #101

> These 44 companies, the study says, are collectively valued at $168 billion and create an average of roughly 760 jobs per company in the U.S. $168B divided by 760 employees: $220M of value created per job. If there's no error in the numbers, that means that employees at these startups are tremendously underpaid, in spite of probably making above-market salaries.

Isn't the number 760 employees PER company? That would make the total as 760*44=33,440 employees.

Correct. That comes down to $5M per employee, which is still pretty damn good by my standards

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#112
post #3

So those immigrants are taking all that VC money away from me! (Kidding, kidding, kidding, just a Trump joke).

And yet this is what the majority of people in on HN are arguing here. So you have to ask, why is a certain viewpoint laughable when applied to illegal immigrants from South America, but reasonable when applied to H-1B visas?

Because their interests are not hurt by illegal immigrants from South America, but hurt by legal immigrants on H-1B visas.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#113
post #6

These are not the downtrodden masses. Immigrant does not mean poor. These are wealthy upper class people coming to the most logical place to create a successful technology company, because they can afford to do so. Poor people are usually stuck wherever they are. Investors in Silicon Valley care a lot about status and pedigree. A foreigner that can afford elite credentials is far more likely to get funding than a poo…

Yeah just go on and make up shit as long as it makes you feel better. The foreigner that can "afford" elite credentials is actually a foreigner from a humble background who came through the most competitive process in the world and managed to get scholarship in a US graduate school.

It's obvious that whoever you are, you haven't actually tried to get to know anything about these pesky foreigners'(who probably work with you on a daily basis) personal life and background. If you had, you'd know that a profile like this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3195384/Pictured-pai...

is actually a rule rather than an exception.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#114
post #6

These are not the downtrodden masses. Immigrant does not mean poor. These are wealthy upper class people coming to the most logical place to create a successful technology company, because they can afford to do so. Poor people are usually stuck wherever they are. Investors in Silicon Valley care a lot about status and pedigree. A foreigner that can afford elite credentials is far more likely to get funding than a poo…

> These are wealthy upper class people coming to the most logical place

They usually need to get an H-1B visa as part of the immigration process. You are insinuating that "wealthy upper class" can immigrate without obeying visa rules. That is ridiculous.

> A foreigner that can afford elite credentials

Many of their families probably can barely afford to pay for college in the U.S., but they scoop up the money to do so, in hope of a better life for their offspring. The United States however subjects them to an arbitrary H-1B lottery that decides if they get to stay in the country after graduation (and OPT).

> far more likely to get funding than a poor local.

Are you seriously suggesting that investors in Silicon Valley discriminate in favor of people with college degrees over poor uneducated people?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigrants are a self-selecting group. The barriers you have to cross leave the most motivated individuals/families capable of coming here. The immigrating generation, at least from my experience, come with the intention of setting up their children with better possibilities. Their lives revolve around making their kids hard workers in school, which transfers over into their character. There's a joke in my community…

> Immigrants are a self-selecting group I find this offensive, as an immigrant. Also, my mother (and sister) worked in a sweat shop (they needle thread tags on imported/fake clothes underneath a laundromat) to put food on the table while going to school. My mother didn't "sacrifice" everything for us, she worked hard; became a programmer; and didn't allow my sibling and I to work less then her. > There's a joke in my…

>> My mother didn't "sacrifice" everything for us, she worked hard; became a programmer; and didn't allow my sibling and I to work less then her.

That's what parent means by self-selecting, which is being used in the sense described here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-selection_bias - a perfectly innocuous meaning.

(I say this as someone who has no pony in this race - I'm neither a resident, nor citizen, nor etc of the US)

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#116
post #6

These are not the downtrodden masses. Immigrant does not mean poor. These are wealthy upper class people coming to the most logical place to create a successful technology company, because they can afford to do so. Poor people are usually stuck wherever they are. Investors in Silicon Valley care a lot about status and pedigree. A foreigner that can afford elite credentials is far more likely to get funding than a poo…

> These are wealthy upper class people coming to the most logical place They usually need to get an H-1B visa as part of the immigration process. You are insinuating that "wealthy upper class" can immigrate without obeying visa rules. That is ridiculous. > A foreigner that can afford elite credentials Many of their families probably can barely afford to pay for college in the U.S., but they scoop up the money to do s…

He's not referring to H1Bs.

http://goldsea.com/Text/index.php?id=6205

Sehat Sutardja. One of many such examples.

All you needed to do was fly your pregnant wife over to get American citizenship...but that's changing now.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#117
In a slightly older thread concerning this topic, at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11306290 I made some objections to this analysis.

I think there's a fundamental problem in how to interpret this analysis. It says that a company is founded by an immigrant if there is at least one immigrant founder. This means that if 1 of 10 founders is foreign born, then it classified as immigrant founded. An aggregate calculation like this is very likely to give a number which is higher than the more important number, the over- or under- representation of immigrant founders relative to the immigrant population.

For example, if every company has 10 founders, and every company has 1 immigrant founder, then by the given definition, 100% of the companies would be founded by an immigrant. However, only 10% of the founder population would be an immigrant. As immigrants make up about 13% of the US population, this would mean that immigrants would be proportionally less likely to be founders of $1B valuated startups than non-immigrants.

Curiously, and I believe significantly, the study does not give this population information, and it makes it difficult to determine that ratio.

I did not find an explicit count of the number of immigrant founders. Table 4 has a list of all of the name, and Table 3 has a count of immigrants from a given country, so it's possible to figure this out. I am perturbed that the first contains 60 people and the second 61. Perhaps I have miscounted, but I believe there is an error in the report. (I double checked the report by searching for "60" or "61", but found no explicit total of the number of immigrant founders.)

I did not find an explicit count of the total number of founders, which means I have to compute that myself from the list of companies. I did not find an explicit list of companies, which means I have to go to the original WSJ data source.

Which I did, though my count was off by one from the report's count. It would have been much better if the report included the explicit list of companies and founder counts.

I took the current WSJ list of 106 companies and picked a few in the top, middle, and bottom range. (Statistical sampling would have been better, I know.) I found founder counts of 65 of them before tedium kicked in. I found 161 founders.

This gives an estimated total founder size of 161/65x87 = 215.5, and implies that about 60/215.5 = 28% of founders are immigrants.

This number, while twice as large as expected from the general immigrant population of the US, is also around half of the eye-catching 51%.

The next step would be to do a sensitivity analysis to give an idea of error bars. I do not know anything beyond basic statistics, but will point out that 60 is a very small number compared to the number of foreign visa, and hardly representative.

Speaking of statistics, while 28% is twice as large as 13%, there's likely also a form of p-hacking, or "garden of forking paths" going on. With enough sampling, you will be able to find very unrepresentative subgroups in your data. Why was this population of $1B startups chosen? Do the results change with $2B? Do they change for companies that go public?

For a more specific example, last year there was an analysis going around which pointed out that "Most high tech companies are founded by founded by First/2nd gen immigrants". This is definitely in the same vein, though with different measures. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9085970 for my observation that this is almost exactly what you would expect given the immigrant population in the US.

Since I can point to two reports related to the topic, how many more negative and thus unpublished correlations are there?

Finally, the report includes the suggestion that diversity among the founders helps improve the success of the company. If that were the case, then should we not exclude companies where the all founders are from the same foreign country, as in Nutanix where all three founders are from India?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#118
post #10
post #6

These are not the downtrodden masses. Immigrant does not mean poor. These are wealthy upper class people coming to the most logical place to create a successful technology company, because they can afford to do so. Poor people are usually stuck wherever they are. Investors in Silicon Valley care a lot about status and pedigree. A foreigner that can afford elite credentials is far more likely to get funding than a poo…

Are you sure H1B visas are relevant here? I would imagine EB-5 (investment) visas would be the more common route for upper class immigrant entrepreneurs coming to the US.

I was downvoted for this comment. I don't even know what to think about that.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#119
post #10
post #6

These are not the downtrodden masses. Immigrant does not mean poor. These are wealthy upper class people coming to the most logical place to create a successful technology company, because they can afford to do so. Poor people are usually stuck wherever they are. Investors in Silicon Valley care a lot about status and pedigree. A foreigner that can afford elite credentials is far more likely to get funding than a poo…

Are you sure H1B visas are relevant here? I would imagine EB-5 (investment) visas would be the more common route for upper class immigrant entrepreneurs coming to the US.

I was downvoted for this comment. I don't even know what to think about that.
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