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Venezuela to Shut Down for a Week to Cope With Electricity Crisis

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Re: Venezuela to Shut Down for a Week to Cope With Electricity Crisis

#121

Post by err4nt »

malbs wrote: post #40

Here in Tasmania we're not at the shut down stage yet, but it's something no one wants to talk about. They're not asking residents to shutdown yet, but if things continue the way they are, who knows. The major companies/power users are currently being rationed (Aluminium smelters, paper mills etc) The state relies on hydro-electric power, and last year sold off a lot of its "excess" power to Victoria via the Basslink…

TASMANIA?! I originally read that as 'Tunisia'

WTF dude, if you need any large downloads let me know - I'm sure it'll arrive faster by mail boat :P

Does anybody live 'off the grid' where you live? What are your options for self-generating electricity, like solar or wind? Definitely a wake up call to me here in Canada. I'd be lost without electricity!

Best of luck, and I'm hoping the rain comes soon!

Re: Venezuela to Shut Down for a Week to Cope With Electricity Crisis

#122

Post by kafkaesq »

mikerichards wrote: post #119
kafkaesq wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course "libertarianism" as such -- being even more farcical than nearly any version of socialism -- has never gotten a real toehold anywhere for any length of time, making the comparison moot. That's why I prefer to stick with comparisons of large-scale, real-life ideological systems ("by their deeds shall ye know them"). That is, not the platonic ideals that people (pretend to) believe in; but the actual, real-wo…

It doesn't matter how you to try to spin it. The vast scale of the horrors inflicted on humanity because of authoritarian socialism is well known and won't just go away.

I never denied them, so I don't know what you're driving at.

I just don't think that being "horrified" at the excesses of only one extreme on the ideological spectrum -- whilst remaining indifferent (or willfully oblivious) to the skeletons in one's own ideological basement -- makes for a particularly useful or instructive view of the world.

Re: Venezuela to Shut Down for a Week to Cope With Electricity Crisis

#123

Post by the_af »

mikerichards wrote: post #116
the_af wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nazi Party, even though it has "socialism" and "workers" in its title, is not considered to be a form of Socialism (nor, for that matter, to be pro workers). Not that it matters much, but the only mention of Nazism in the Wikipedia article you linked doesn't refer to it as a form of socialism.

The Nazi Party, even though it has "socialism" and "workers" in its title, is not considered to be a form of Socialism (nor, for that matter, to be pro workers) I hate getting down in the weeds on this, but its "not considered socialism" by those on the left who are embarrassed that the Nazis were pretty much a command economy and have socialism in its name.

I don't think Nazism is considered a form of Socialism by pretty much any reputable source; only some in the anti-Left fringe do. A planned economy alone is not enough to classify a system as socialist, and anyway Nazism had enough elements of private property and corporatism. The Nazis, like in many other aspects, were equivocating by calling themselves socialists -- not that they particularly liked the term themselves very much.

I wouldn't pay much attention to the name of the Nazi Party, either. After all, North Korea is a "democratic" republic, it says so right in their name!

Re: Venezuela to Shut Down for a Week to Cope With Electricity Crisis

#124

Post by x5n1 »

bedhead wrote: post #114
rafaelm wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That factory was Owens-Illinois? But what is happening here is because of massive corruption at every level of the government. They only nationalized one of the power companies (Electricidad de Caracas, only deals with power in the capital). The rest simply succumbed to corruption. Companies with ties to the military and government officials that sold a bunch of overpriced, refurbished power plants that don't work. T…

The unimaginable corruption (as opposed to our run-of-the-mill corruption) is a symptom of a communistic/dictatorial government.

Has nothing to do with Communism, and everything do with the rhetoric that follows this sort of approach towards governance, in which some idiot dictator uses Communist rhetoric to destroy the country by parceling out private corporations to his family and friends in the name of the people where he knows nothing about anything. The Soviet economy was perfectly functional until the very end. Chavez was a military dictator that knew shit all about running governments or about Communism or even Socialism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Soviet_Union

Re: Venezuela to Shut Down for a Week to Cope With Electricity Crisis

#125

Post by aurelianito »

aortega wrote: post #17
toomuchtodo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could this be helped by first world countries donating solar and wind generation equipment, and peace corps training programs to train and supervise the installation in country? EDIT: thanks for the replies everyone. sadness.

No. Argentina, Brazil and other latam countries really do not need donations. Venezuela is a very rich country that actually have the second largest oil reserves, ironically. It would be like donating stuff to Saudi Arabia. Our problem is rampant corruption, populism and mismanagement derived from it. Brazil is trying to get out. Argentina is out of it, lets hope is not too late. For Venezuela is already too late.

I do not agree with you. I think that the real issue with both Argentina and Brazil is that the ruling class is more interested in going on holidays to Miami and Europe than in the health and progress of the country. It also does not help that just 40 years ago the military wiped out an entire generation of left-wing politicians, which left us with very bad country management :(.

Re: Venezuela to Shut Down for a Week to Cope With Electricity Crisis

#126

Post by markdown »

bedhead wrote: post #114
rafaelm wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That factory was Owens-Illinois? But what is happening here is because of massive corruption at every level of the government. They only nationalized one of the power companies (Electricidad de Caracas, only deals with power in the capital). The rest simply succumbed to corruption. Companies with ties to the military and government officials that sold a bunch of overpriced, refurbished power plants that don't work. T…

The unimaginable corruption (as opposed to our run-of-the-mill corruption) is a symptom of a communistic/dictatorial government.

It is also a symptom of a capitalistic/plutocratic government. The fact that the rich control the media (CNN/MSNBC etc all owned by Clinton donors, [nytimes also corrupt](http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-the-new-york-t...) and use their propaganda machine and [immense wealth](http://i.imgur.com/vUVatUt.png) to have their puppet elected... and then the biggest corruption machine in the world (creatively called "lobbying") gives your congress and senate bills to rubber-stamp... it's in a way worse than the Venezuela situation because at least Venezuela doesn't go out and kill thousands of (brown) people.

Re: Venezuela to Shut Down for a Week to Cope With Electricity Crisis

#127

Post by nfriedly »

I've been to Venezuela a couple of times and have friends there currently. I'd ask them how they are doing, except that we usually communicate over Skype and Hangouts...

I believe they'll be alright though. The one family I know owns a farm on the side of a mountain, so plenty of food, and they get fresh water from a mountain stream, so no worries there. They use a bit of electricity, but don't really need it to live.

The other one, the husband is a US citizen who does some occasional work online. He needs electricity, but he's told me before that he can get by on ~$130 a month, so he should be fine for a week.

Re: Venezuela to Shut Down for a Week to Cope With Electricity Crisis

#128

Post by mattchew »

noir_lord wrote: post #110
Frondo wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As are corruption and capitalism, corruption and monarchy, corruption and communism, corruption and just about every large-scale human endeavor (as well as a lot of the small-scale ones!). If you only associate corruption with socialism, that seems like an uninformed view of the world.

Doesn't seem like an uninformed worldview, it is an uninformed world view. https://assets.weforum.org/editor/cYHll0JXGc8zJzpkmvOPzcTTjI... Top 10, at least 5 are socialist (I make it 8, Singapore and Switzerland aren't). Of course this is a perception study but I'd argue broadly accurate based on other metrics. This "socialism bad, laissez fair capitalism good" thing gets old and largely seems to be a misunderstandin…

I would say all 10 are clearly capitalist. All have strong recognition of property rights including private property in the means of production.

It is unfortunate that political terminology is muddy enough to allow for this sort of confusion. If I think these 10 countries are capitalist and you think 8 of them are socialist, what is the likelihood of us having a useful conversation discussing capitalism and socialism?

Re: Venezuela to Shut Down for a Week to Cope With Electricity Crisis

#129

Post by tim333 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #65

> there is only one word. Corruption The word I would use is Socialism. They are of course related.

The thing that is really screwing the Venezuelan economy is the weird exchange rate system which is not exactly corruption or socialism. The ft had "A foreign exchange rate at 10 and 200 versus a 1,000 black market rate is not effective" which I think means you can change at 10 or 200 pesos to the dollar depending on who you know or bribe and the real rate is 1000. Completely Alice in Wonderland mad. I think it's because president Maduro is a former bus conductor who has roughly zero understanding of economics.

Interestingly I see some Venezuelans are turning to bitcoin against the the wishes of their government.

Re: Venezuela to Shut Down for a Week to Cope With Electricity Crisis

#130

Post by hackerboos »

known wrote: post #42

Should have setup saving fund https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_wealth_fund#Nature_a...

But rather they did what we did in the UK - massive internal spending which caused huge instability in the economy.

Unfortunately not all countries are as intelligent as Norway.

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