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Go Game Guru – Learn all about the board game Go

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Re: Go Game Guru – Learn all about the board game Go

#51

Post by shultays »

kqr wrote: post #11
chrisherring wrote: post #7

I've started playing Go against a computer (SmartGo iOS on a 9x9 board) but I find the hard part is determining where you're making mistakes, what is a better move, why the computer did what it did etc. For instance the computer may ignore a capture to play elsewhere and it can be hard to work out why. I learnt to play Chess when I was young so I can't make a fair comparison but it feels like Chess is much easier to…

The general principle is that captures aren't actually worth a whole lot. Territory (area under your control) is where it's at. If a capture is a means of getting more territory, that's grand, but on it's own it's not worth much at all. Does this help your self diagnosis? If the computer ignored a capture it's because it didn't actually lead to a lot of territory gained, whereas whatever move it played probably did.

While scoring go uses area you control + number of stones you capture right?

Somewhere I read about go it makes no sense to put stones on the area your opponent control because they will be captured. however

  wwwww
  w   w
  w b w
  w   w
  wwwww
in this case white has to put 4 stones (thus reduce area by 4) just to get 1 point. am I missing something

Re: Go Game Guru – Learn all about the board game Go

#52

Post by Jach »

knodi123 wrote: post #39

I, and I suspect a lot of other people, was introduced to Go by the tv show Hikaru No Go. > While exploring his grandfather's shed, Hikaru stumbles across a Go board haunted by the spirit of Fujiwara-no-Sai, a Go player from the Heian era. Sai wishes to play Go again, having not been able to since the late Edo period, when his ghost appeared to Honinbo Shusaku, a top Go player of that period. Sai's greatest desire is…

What would you ever fast forward besides the intro/"last time on.." and the outro? ;)

I would add a recommendation to watch the Japanese dub. I accidentally stumbled upon the English dub on Youtube recently, I didn't even know there was one, it was terrible...

Re: Go Game Guru – Learn all about the board game Go

#53

Post by ideonexus »

romaniv wrote: post #49

While we're here, does anyone know a good Go app for Android? A lot of them look like spyware, judging by permissions.

I use "Go Free." It has permissions to USB storage and network access. The unpaid version allows a 13x13 board (19x19 requires upgrading). It has 10 levels of difficulty, of which I can only beat up to level 3. The ads are a little annoying, but no worse than any other free games I have for android:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=uk.co.aifactor...

Re: Go Game Guru – Learn all about the board game Go

#54

Post by Spellman »

shultays wrote: post #51
kqr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general principle is that captures aren't actually worth a whole lot. Territory (area under your control) is where it's at. If a capture is a means of getting more territory, that's grand, but on it's own it's not worth much at all. Does this help your self diagnosis? If the computer ignored a capture it's because it didn't actually lead to a lot of territory gained, whereas whatever move it played probably did.

While scoring go uses area you control + number of stones you capture right? Somewhere I read about go it makes no sense to put stones on the area your opponent control because they will be captured. however wwwww w w w b w w w wwwww in this case white has to put 4 stones (thus reduce area by 4) just to get 1 point. am I missing something

If a group is dead, it will be automatically captured at the end of the game.

So, in this case, the black stone is auto-captured, and you get the territory within as well.

So, yes, playing white stones to capture is actually detrimental to yourself. But also imagine if black keeps playing. They would be giving away free captures since black can never create eyes. And once the space is almost filled white can play 1 stone to capture all of the black stones.

Edit: Another way to imagine it is if neither player could pass. While yes White would lose territory as it played stones, it would be compensated by Black playing stones that will be captured in the end. Thus it becomes a wash, and thus why dead groups are auto-captured.

Re: Go Game Guru – Learn all about the board game Go

#55

Post by Spellman »

romaniv wrote: post #49

While we're here, does anyone know a good Go app for Android? A lot of them look like spyware, judging by permissions.

I use Godroid.

It's free and utilizes a version of GNU Go to play as computer AI. Also supports local multiplayer. Doesn't support network. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.agrothe.go&...

Re: Go Game Guru – Learn all about the board game Go

#56

Post by blubb-fish »

jdietrich wrote: post #29
chrisherring wrote: post #7

I've started playing Go against a computer (SmartGo iOS on a 9x9 board) but I find the hard part is determining where you're making mistakes, what is a better move, why the computer did what it did etc. For instance the computer may ignore a capture to play elsewhere and it can be hard to work out why. I learnt to play Chess when I was young so I can't make a fair comparison but it feels like Chess is much easier to…

As others have said, there's no substitute for playing against human beings. When you've played a few proper games, I recommend joining a teaching ladder. Your games will be reviewed by stronger players. In exchange, you are expected to review the games of weaker players. Teaching can be just as valuable as learning, as it forces you to clarify concepts in your mind in order to explain them. Even if you're a high-kyu…

that's essentially a pyramid system ...

Re: Go Game Guru – Learn all about the board game Go

#57

Post by JeremyBanks »

blubb-fish wrote: post #56
jdietrich wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others have said, there's no substitute for playing against human beings. When you've played a few proper games, I recommend joining a teaching ladder. Your games will be reviewed by stronger players. In exchange, you are expected to review the games of weaker players. Teaching can be just as valuable as learning, as it forces you to clarify concepts in your mind in order to explain them. Even if you're a high-kyu…

that's essentially a pyramid system ...

Pyramid systems involve exponential (or at least superlinear) growth which was not implied by the parent post.

Re: Go Game Guru – Learn all about the board game Go

#58

Post by mrob »

shultays wrote: post #51
kqr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general principle is that captures aren't actually worth a whole lot. Territory (area under your control) is where it's at. If a capture is a means of getting more territory, that's grand, but on it's own it's not worth much at all. Does this help your self diagnosis? If the computer ignored a capture it's because it didn't actually lead to a lot of territory gained, whereas whatever move it played probably did.

While scoring go uses area you control + number of stones you capture right? Somewhere I read about go it makes no sense to put stones on the area your opponent control because they will be captured. however wwwww w w w b w w w wwwww in this case white has to put 4 stones (thus reduce area by 4) just to get 1 point. am I missing something

This is why I much prefer Chinese (and similar) rules with area scoring. In area scoring you get one point for each space you surround, and one point for each stone on the board. It's immediately obvious and simple.

In Japanese rules you lose points for playing in your own territory. The black stone in your example is dead, and a reasonable player would allow it to be removed, but there's nothing stopping them from claiming it to be alive and forcing white to play to capture it. At this point the only option is for white to dispute its life status, and to duplicate the game board and make a hypothetical sequence of plays to prove it to be dead without actually playing the moves. There's a lot of added complexity for no real benefit, because the end result is usually identical.

Re: Go Game Guru – Learn all about the board game Go

#60

Post by blubb-fish »

JeremyBanks wrote: post #57
blubb-fish wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's essentially a pyramid system ...

Pyramid systems involve exponential (or at least superlinear) growth which was not implied by the parent post.

well, they promise you to be teached - but (and here's the catch) you have to teach yourself - but then at some point the upmost teacher leaves with his knowledge and the whooooole ladder starts to crash - so obvious
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