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Go Game Guru – Learn all about the board game Go

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Re: Go Game Guru – Learn all about the board game Go

#31
I just started playing Go this January. The game was fairly overwhelming at first.

The path I followed to get a decent understanding of the game (I'm about 13kyu now) was this:

1. Start by playing a few games, doesn't really matter the size of the board, or whatever, it's just for context and to get a general feel for the game. But not enough games to get dejected or fall into bad habits.

2. Read an introductory Go book. I personally first read "Go; More Than a Game" by Peter Shotwell. It explains the game from the very beginning and also has a lot of historical context which most Go books do not. My roommate had this book which was very convenient for me. An online resource that is fairly good is Sensei's Library, especially http://senseis.xmp.net/?HaengMaTutorialForBeginners. You can also find the definition and exampels of all Go terms here.

3. Play more games, try to apply things you learned from the book. Also start watching Nick Sibicky's YouTube lecture series. Just start at #1 and keep watching when you have time. I'm only on lecture ~30 but I find they have been very helpful.

4. Get a Tsumego (like chess problems, but Go problems) app or something for your phone and do a Go problem every so often. (Try to do at least 10 problems a day. Try reading it out rather than firing shots blindly. If you just brute force the solution you won't learn nearly as much as if you spend a long time just trying to read it out.)

5. At this point, you should be playing a few 19x19 games every week. Keep in mind that 9x9 is fairly different, so play it if you like it but keep in mind it is not 19x19 at all. Try to review after each game, or have your games reviewed by stronger players. There are a lot of friendly, helpful, and knowledgeable players in the chat rooms on online-go.com and the review tool is pretty cool. The site actually uses a pretty modern stack, too, using node.js and Angular, if I recall correctly... the devs hang out in chat too and are fairly open to questions)

6. At this stage, you should be somewhere around 20-15k on online-go.com. (Essentially, past the most basic novice level. You understand atari, ko, etc. You recognize some of the obvious mistakes.) Now it's time to buy a more serious Go book. I highly recommend "The Fundamentals of Go" by Toshiro Kageyama 7p and "Graded Go Problems for Beginners" (Volume 2) by Kano Yoshinori 9p. Kageyama's writing style is pretty entertaining and he stresses the fundamentals which are very important. The Go Problems book covers a lot more than life and death, it has opening, end game, etc problems, with explanations attached to all the answers.

7. Keep playing games, doing tsumego, watching youtube videos, and re-reading the books if relevant. It should be a straight and steady climb to single digit kyu-dom from here on out. At least that's my hope. :)

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NOTE: Do not play against Go computer programs if you can help it... they play bizarre moves that sometimes work out and sometimes are meaningless... You can learn much more from a human opponent who will help you learn the obvious mistakes by punishing you for them directly.

Re: Go Game Guru – Learn all about the board game Go

#32
post #26
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many go clubs in the Netherlands. Find one, go and play with people! While you are at it, you can ask them about buying a go board and will probably be able to buy one without having to pay for shipping at all.

If I remember correctly, my girlfriend looked for one near south Limburg but the closest one was Utrecht.. I know there is an index for chess clubs, do you know of one for go clubs?

https://gobond.nl/verenigingen

Surprisingly, south Limburg doesn't seem to be included.

Re: Go Game Guru – Learn all about the board game Go

#33

I've started playing Go against a computer (SmartGo iOS on a 9x9 board) but I find the hard part is determining where you're making mistakes, what is a better move, why the computer did what it did etc. For instance the computer may ignore a capture to play elsewhere and it can be hard to work out why. I learnt to play Chess when I was young so I can't make a fair comparison but it feels like Chess is much easier to…

As others have said, there's no substitute for playing against human beings. When you've played a few proper games, I recommend joining a teaching ladder. Your games will be reviewed by stronger players. In exchange, you are expected to review the games of weaker players. Teaching can be just as valuable as learning, as it forces you to clarify concepts in your mind in order to explain them. Even if you're a high-kyu…

Clearly the next goal for AI is a program that can teach Go better than human teachers.

Re: Go Game Guru – Learn all about the board game Go

#34
post #26
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many go clubs in the Netherlands. Find one, go and play with people! While you are at it, you can ask them about buying a go board and will probably be able to buy one without having to pay for shipping at all.

If I remember correctly, my girlfriend looked for one near south Limburg but the closest one was Utrecht.. I know there is an index for chess clubs, do you know of one for go clubs?

The Nederlandse Go Bond has a list of affiliated clubs. If you speak French or German, I might also suggest looking for clubs across the border.

https://www.gobond.nl/verenigingen http://www.eurogofed.org/members/

Re: Go Game Guru – Learn all about the board game Go

#35

I've started playing Go against a computer (SmartGo iOS on a 9x9 board) but I find the hard part is determining where you're making mistakes, what is a better move, why the computer did what it did etc. For instance the computer may ignore a capture to play elsewhere and it can be hard to work out why. I learnt to play Chess when I was young so I can't make a fair comparison but it feels like Chess is much easier to…

I've had the same issue. It would be helpful to have some kind of 'ranking' for a move after it's been played so you know if you've immediately made a mistake. Often after playing a losing game I'll undo moves and try some variations, but I don't know how far to go back. Was it my 50th move that was weak, or the 10th one... I know a moves strength isn't immediately obvious (as was apparent in the alphago games) so it…

Blunders are fairly easy to notice in-game or afterward in review, but yeah it can be frustrating when you don't feel like you made a big mistake but still lost by a lot. If you have a better player look it over though they'll at least find a bad / inefficient move pretty much every few moves that "only" loses you maybe 3-5 points but the accumulation at the end is pretty big. Personally I like GnuGo for doing some post-game move analyses (I use the GoGui client) but I think I'd fare much better having a good player review or do a teaching game... Still, it's kind of fun to look at its suggested Top Moves, or try letting it finish a game (Final Score -- I think its Estimate Score is pretty terrible, though AlphaGo's would be nice to have on hand...) with itself after certain points to see if any are decisive for it. Another fun thing I did recently with a wild full game was have GnuGo annotate every move with the top moves it would have picked along with marking dead or critical groups. (The command is: `gnugo --level 15 --output-flags dv --replay both -l input-game.sgf -o annotated-output-game.sgf`)

What I really want is a kibitzing clock when playing other people: http://www.emptytriangle.com/archive/show/8

Re: Go Game Guru – Learn all about the board game Go

#36
For the English speaking Go community, GoGameGuru is without question the most reliable online resource for great commentary on the most important matches between the world's top players (and of course more recently AlphaGo vs. Lee Sedol). They also do translations of the best content from Korea's BadukTV - lessons, game commentary, famous problem sets, and more. GoGameGuru is a treasure trove, no question.

That said, GoGameGuru is just another sign of an explosion of amazing Go content, tools, and communities for an English speaking audience. There's really never been a better time to get into the game. You have Lee Hajin's (Korean 3p) YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTji1kQNoWIH85dB_Vxka9g where she plays games live on Tygem (one of the largest and strongest online Go communities, many top pros play there). You have online sophisticated pattern searching over hundreds of years of games http://ps.waltheri.net. You can get free online commentary on games you played https://gokibitz.com. And you can easily find an opponent online without leaving the comfort of your browser http://online-go.com.

I wrote a post in January summarizing all the great content now available as well as possible paths to deepening your understanding of the game - http://swannodette.github.io/baduk//baduk/2016/01/08/hello-b....

Re: Go Game Guru – Learn all about the board game Go

#38

I've started playing Go against a computer (SmartGo iOS on a 9x9 board) but I find the hard part is determining where you're making mistakes, what is a better move, why the computer did what it did etc. For instance the computer may ignore a capture to play elsewhere and it can be hard to work out why. I learnt to play Chess when I was young so I can't make a fair comparison but it feels like Chess is much easier to…

>For instance the computer may ignore a capture to play elsewhere and it can be hard to work out why.

I think the biggest insight I had about Go when I was learning to play it is that the game commences on the entire board at once. At the beginning I was over-concentrating on a single "active" region. In reality, abandoning some "battle" and adding stones to an "unrelated" region is a perfectly sensible strategy as long as you think it will give you territory in the long run.

Re: Go Game Guru – Learn all about the board game Go

#39
I, and I suspect a lot of other people, was introduced to Go by the tv show Hikaru No Go.

> While exploring his grandfather's shed, Hikaru stumbles across a Go board haunted by the spirit of Fujiwara-no-Sai, a Go player from the Heian era. Sai wishes to play Go again, having not been able to since the late Edo period, when his ghost appeared to Honinbo Shusaku, a top Go player of that period. Sai's greatest desire is to attain the Kami no Itte (神の一手?, "Divine Move") – a perfect move. Because Hikaru is apparently the only person who can perceive him, Sai inhabits a part of Hikaru's mind as a separate personality, coexisting, although not always comfortably, with the young boy.

> Urged by Sai, Hikaru begins playing Go despite an initial lack of interest in the game. He begins by simply executing the moves Sai dictates to him, but Sai tells him to try to understand each move.

It's a fun series, especially if you have a fast-forward button and don't have to fumble around with discs

Re: Go Game Guru – Learn all about the board game Go

#40

I've started playing Go against a computer (SmartGo iOS on a 9x9 board) but I find the hard part is determining where you're making mistakes, what is a better move, why the computer did what it did etc. For instance the computer may ignore a capture to play elsewhere and it can be hard to work out why. I learnt to play Chess when I was young so I can't make a fair comparison but it feels like Chess is much easier to…

One of the most important concepts in Go is the idea of initiative and forcing moves (see "sente" and "gote"). Making an unnecessary capture is giving your opponent initiative, so it's a "gote" play. They're free to play anywhere else on the board, which is bad for you.

Sometimes a group of stones is in a position such that no matter how their owner plays there is no way they can be saved (assuming correct play from the opponent). The stones are called "dead". Instead of capturing those stones, it's better to play elsewhere and retain the initiative ("sente"). You retain control of the game and your opponent is forced to react. You're not losing anything, because you can come back and capture the stones any time. If your opponent tries to save them you know a move that will prevent it.

Recognizing stones that can't possibly escape being captured, and knowing how to stop them escaping, is the study of "life and death". The better you get at this the less likely you are to waste moves or give away the initiative.

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