Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities • Hacker News Board

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#141

Post by mcmatterson » Wed, Mar 16, 2016, 2:33 PM UTC

tallanvor wrote: post #47

I see this as a problem all over the world. - San Francisco, Seattle, New York, Vancouver, London, Oslo... Really the list could go on for quite a while. So many of these cities feel like they have to retain their "identity" or the "feel" of the town, so they set restrictions that make it very hard to develop properties that can hold more people. The result is always the same: continually increasing prices in the cen…

It's telling that Toronto isn't on that list. It's taken me a decade of living here to really understand what makes this place tick, and one thing that's become clear is that a near universal friendliness to newcomers in both word and deed is a huge part of Toronto's identity. I've said it before in many conversations on the topic, but I think that this pervasive openness is going to do nothing but help Toronto's place on the world stage

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#142

Post by branchless » Wed, Mar 16, 2016, 2:33 PM UTC

mtviewdave wrote: post #133

branchless wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HAM is not the only reason. Canadian banks are lending insane amounts. People always say Canada's banks are "sound". Every bank is sound until land prices go into reverse.

>Every bank is sound until land prices go into reverse. Generalize that to building prices, and if true, that's going to make it very difficult to use construction to lower housing prices. Banks aren't going to lend for construction if they think making loans is going to threaten the bank's own soundness. Or to put it another way, if falling housing prices add unacceptable risk to construction loans, then the banks e…

You are treating it as a big brain. It's split many ways. There are many banks, they don't behave as a mass. Some will lend because they want / need the income.

Secondly most lending decisions are made by employees. Their interests are not aligned with the long-term health of the bank. They want their bonus. Who cares if it blows up in 10 years time?

We've seen this in 2008. Banks behaved insanely.

Finally if banks were playing the long game together why pump up land prices until they are backed into a corner? Better to drip to maintain throughput.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#143

Post by mhkhung » Wed, Mar 16, 2016, 2:35 PM UTC

lewisl9029 wrote: post #12

As someone who's lived in Vancouver for more than 10 years, then went to Waterloo for school (and lived in Toronto for most of my co-ops/internships), I think we Canadians should be more worried about highly educated millennials fleeing Canada entirely. Everybody I know from school who were offered the option to work in the US have picked up their Canadian degrees and left. To the Canadian tech industry: How are you…

There is always (your) life cycles. Both myself and my brother Waterloo grads in the 90s. He is in the sv and I stayed in Toronto. My company sent me down to the valley to "help" for a few months (ie living and food all expensed) when I was still fresh. Hated it.. there is nothing at night. So I never have the urge to move there afterwards.

Then once you have multiple kids, single income doesn't take you far in the valley even with Google scale salary and mortgage. Plus Amazon has dev centre in downtown Toronto that pays well (not silicon valley well, but Seattle well). (Yes, startups don't pay well in Toronto, but then there are lots of small and profitable sw firms that pays decently).

Or just convince google to move that Kitchener office to Toronto, when so many people are commuting anyway..

And then, Vancouver is always a retirement city..

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#144

Post by ruffrey » Wed, Mar 16, 2016, 2:39 PM UTC

With online collaboration tools really taking off, especially with WebRTC currently on billions of devices, I have this unfounded belief that city centers will become less important over the next decade. There will always be work which is better suited to in-person setups.

Maybe it is more of a hope than a belief - but having a decentralized workforce has implications for cost of living and quality of life that are exciting. With (relatively) low-cost mortgages, home purchasing power increases at a non-linear rate, the more money you make. That is one reason why housing demand in cities can grow faster than wages.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#145

Post by Reason077 » Wed, Mar 16, 2016, 2:40 PM UTC

If millennial are fleeing Vancouver for London because they can't afford housing, as this article suggests, they're going to be very disappointed with our housing prices!

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#146

Post by totalrobe » Wed, Mar 16, 2016, 2:42 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #74

simonbarker87 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

£35,000 salary in the UK has the same buying power (for want of a better expression as a $60,000 US salary. Adjust for "because London" and you're looking at £45/55K (not hard in London) equating to $75K - $100K. Thinking about it, I know a dozen or so people in the "poor deprived" north east of England earning over £40K who are under 30 years old so we're not all badly paid.

The difference is that Brits feel poor when they come to the US, whereas Americans feel rich when they come to the UK. Sure, PPP (Purchasing Power Parity) comparisions are important (e.g. it's easier to live in Thailand with $1000 per months than in NYC), but absolute values matter as well.

Very wrong. American here, was in the UK last summer and it physically hurt me to buy anything.

UK and American prices are around the same number but in pounds which meant ~1.6x USD at the time.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#147

Post by rm_-rf_slash » Wed, Mar 16, 2016, 2:48 PM UTC

ruffrey wrote: post #144

With online collaboration tools really taking off, especially with WebRTC currently on billions of devices, I have this unfounded belief that city centers will become less important over the next decade. There will always be work which is better suited to in-person setups. Maybe it is more of a hope than a belief - but having a decentralized workforce has implications for cost of living and quality of life that are e…

Unfounded all right. Cyclical, more like it. People's tastes change over time. Grandparents liked cities, parents like suburbs, I like cities, and I can't imagine how my kids will feel. Maybe high housing costs will inspire people to live rurally or in exquisite mobile homes driven by computers. Or it will result in a global densification the likes of which we have never truly seen.

In Neuromancer, the Sprawl spanned the entire eastern seaboard and yet the only place with real distinction was Zion - the Rastafarian space station far away from the regular bustle. Things are always in flux.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#148

Post by deepGem » Wed, Mar 16, 2016, 2:51 PM UTC

lewisl9029 wrote: post #12

As someone who's lived in Vancouver for more than 10 years, then went to Waterloo for school (and lived in Toronto for most of my co-ops/internships), I think we Canadians should be more worried about highly educated millennials fleeing Canada entirely. Everybody I know from school who were offered the option to work in the US have picked up their Canadian degrees and left. To the Canadian tech industry: How are you…

I always thought that Canada's low pay was balanced by their universal healthcare. No ?

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#149

Post by dajohnson89 » Wed, Mar 16, 2016, 2:54 PM UTC

deepGem wrote: post #148

lewisl9029 wrote: post #12

As someone who's lived in Vancouver for more than 10 years, then went to Waterloo for school (and lived in Toronto for most of my co-ops/internships), I think we Canadians should be more worried about highly educated millennials fleeing Canada entirely. Everybody I know from school who were offered the option to work in the US have picked up their Canadian degrees and left. To the Canadian tech industry: How are you…

I always thought that Canada's low pay was balanced by their universal healthcare. No ?

Healthcare is often provided by the U.S. employer anyways, so I guess it's a wash in that case.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#150

Post by kspaans » Wed, Mar 16, 2016, 2:55 PM UTC

totalrobe wrote: post #146

tomp wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that Brits feel poor when they come to the US, whereas Americans feel rich when they come to the UK. Sure, PPP (Purchasing Power Parity) comparisions are important (e.g. it's easier to live in Thailand with $1000 per months than in NYC), but absolute values matter as well.

Very wrong. American here, was in the UK last summer and it physically hurt me to buy anything. UK and American prices are around the same number but in pounds which meant ~1.6x USD at the time.

That's probably the 20% VAT that's included in the price. If you are coming from a state with no sales tax, this could explain your surprise. Hell, coming from Canada where I was paying 13% sales tax (never included in the sticker price), I found UK prices shocking.