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Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

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Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#41

Yep, Canadian tech salaries can't compete with Silicon Valley

I'm curious -- can it compete with the PNW at all (i.e., tech jobs in Seattle)?

Even Microsoft internship in Vancouver was about 3.5k per month vs over 7 in Seattle

Hell I've received serious offers for ~70k salary here when that's lower than lots of Bay area internships before the exchange rate

It's absolutely ridiculous

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#42

As someone who's lived in Vancouver for more than 10 years, then went to Waterloo for school (and lived in Toronto for most of my co-ops/internships), I think we Canadians should be more worried about highly educated millennials fleeing Canada entirely. Everybody I know from school who were offered the option to work in the US have picked up their Canadian degrees and left. To the Canadian tech industry: How are you…

Is the question that Canadian companies genuinely can't pay more, or just that they won't, for whatever reason?

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#43
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another datapoint, the govt decided to add to the misery by making it harder to get mortgages. This doesn't affect the people coming into the country with suitcases full of cash but hurts us a lot. The banks are giving us a hard time since we changed jobs in the last year (both my wife and myself improved our employment situation so a move was a good thing; banks want 2 years in the same job; WTF??).

It's counterintuitive, but making it harder to get mortgages will actually reduce housing prices in the long run, because it discourages real estate investment. In the same way, lowering interest rates appears to make it easier for first home buyers to get into the market but just results in investors snapping up more properties, driving up both mortgage amounts and rents.

I hope your right!

I seeing REIT's, and just about every wealthy person I kinda know buying up realeste, and renting it out at outrageous prices.

Some of the wealthy are buying the third house for the kid, and the kid is renting out rooms, at outragious prices.

Low interest rates, mortgages that are being thrown at the wealthy, all cash sales by wealthy foreigners/Americans--who only seem to care about ROA, young/middle class individuals who are just are being denied loans, young/middle class individuals who didn't want to be tied down and just rent, young/middle class individuals who will most likely always be just renters, a huge sector of the public who blame rent control on high rent, county and local building officials who are making it very difficult to build Anything.

If I had money, and believed their was absolutely nothing wrong with charging market rental rates; why wouldn't I buy every house I could afford, especially the under 1 million homes, that have at least 4 bedrooms, and room for four vechicles. Rent out the rooms, and make a profit?

Again, I hope your right.

Right now the poor, and middle class are being imprisioned, and I don't see much change on the horizon. (I was for Dodd-Frank--until banks just seemed to use it as an excuse to not loan, unless your Thrurston Howell the 3rd. And use the bill to raise bank fees on everything. Fees only the poor/middle class are paying.)

I've given up all hopes of buying real-estate.

I'm getting really tired of fees/fines. I'm tired of bank fees. I'm tired of being of overcharged by municipal revenue collectors(cops). I tied of new laws going up daily. I'm tired of being held hostage by the medical community for refills on drugs that should be over the counter. I tired of being charged close to a thousand dollars to get my 4 cylinder, 2300 cc engine to pass a CA smog test. A vechicle that in the bigger picture did nothing to the environment. Why, because I drove the same small car for the last 25 years. Even at it's worse, it doesn't pollute, or add to global warmimg like most newer vechicles--if you include the the carbon emitted when that new vechicle is manufactured in China.

I don't like this America.

It seems like some people don't realize they are being exploited?

Right know, Sausalito CA police are harassing Anchorouts.

They don't want the ugly boats there. I ate my lunch, and counted maybe 5 ugly boats form my vantage point. I counted 20 beautiful yachts, but they arn't the problem? See, there is no problem, but the powers at be just don't want the poor people out there. Ticket them until they are forced to abandon the boat, and it can be towed away--yea! "Rent a room for $700 week on land Sailor. Get your act together. Learn R, or ROR, I hear they are paying well in SF? Hay--put up a social network just for Sailors? I hear Adsence pays well? Oh, you can't code? There's landscaping, or I hear that burger place pays $12 per hr? Get off your old ass! I'm tired of looking at you. You arn't aesthetically pleasing, and no one get free rent in my world. Just think--instead of catching pneumonia on the frigid waters here, you can die on shore while being harrrased/ticketed in Dunphy park for falling asleep. Another yea!"

Yea, call it a narcisstic rant, but I'm just looking in, and hate what I see. It puts a knot in my stomach just writing about it.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#44

The USD median house price in Vancouver is misleading too, because it wasn't long ago that the dollar was at parity, and incomes certainly haven't changed much as the dollar has dropped by a third. Anyway, so far the effect on Victoria seems to be our own mini (compared to Vancouver; still nuts for most of the world) housing boom. I have three couples of close friends all house-hunting right now, and it's not a fun t…

Honest question here - why not just rent and wait it out?

edit/from the article; Rentals are hard to come by, and just as unaffordable. The vacancy rate of 0.8 percent is one of the lowest in the country, and the average monthly rent of C$937 for a bachelor suite is tied at highest with the cost in Toronto, according to Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. Rents for newly built units and renovated basement suites are pricier.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#45

As someone who's lived in Vancouver for more than 10 years, then went to Waterloo for school (and lived in Toronto for most of my co-ops/internships), I think we Canadians should be more worried about highly educated millennials fleeing Canada entirely. Everybody I know from school who were offered the option to work in the US have picked up their Canadian degrees and left. To the Canadian tech industry: How are you…

We have a similar problem in Scotland, I know a lot of people would love to have continued living in Scotland but can make >2 times the salary as a developer by making the move down to London. The cost of living in London is higher, but the increase in pay more than makes up for this. Granted, this is a move within the UK so it's not really a drain on the UK's economy but it leads to a more London-centric economy and…

What's really crazy is that salaries in London aren't that high (unless you are in the financial sector). I am constantly astonished by the low salaries (for qualified programmers) offered in most parts of Britain. I suspect that you could actually get away with building a consulting firm in the country side and getting companies to offshore work from the US.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#46

As someone who's lived in Vancouver for more than 10 years, then went to Waterloo for school (and lived in Toronto for most of my co-ops/internships), I think we Canadians should be more worried about highly educated millennials fleeing Canada entirely. Everybody I know from school who were offered the option to work in the US have picked up their Canadian degrees and left. To the Canadian tech industry: How are you…

We have a similar problem in Scotland, I know a lot of people would love to have continued living in Scotland but can make >2 times the salary as a developer by making the move down to London. The cost of living in London is higher, but the increase in pay more than makes up for this. Granted, this is a move within the UK so it's not really a drain on the UK's economy but it leads to a more London-centric economy and…

Londons great when you are young, but in my experience people eventually leave when they realise they cant afford property even though they are well paid. Plus they realise quality of life is important too, and that the work centric culture in London isnt for them

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#47
I see this as a problem all over the world. - San Francisco, Seattle, New York, Vancouver, London, Oslo... Really the list could go on for quite a while.

So many of these cities feel like they have to retain their "identity" or the "feel" of the town, so they set restrictions that make it very hard to develop properties that can hold more people. The result is always the same: continually increasing prices in the center of the city whether you want to rent or buy, so you have to go further and further out to find something affordable, especially if you are young or if your parents can't help you finance a purchase.

This is going to continue until planning commissions start allowing the construction of higher density housing.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#48

The USD median house price in Vancouver is misleading too, because it wasn't long ago that the dollar was at parity, and incomes certainly haven't changed much as the dollar has dropped by a third. Anyway, so far the effect on Victoria seems to be our own mini (compared to Vancouver; still nuts for most of the world) housing boom. I have three couples of close friends all house-hunting right now, and it's not a fun t…

Honest question here - why not just rent and wait it out? edit/from the article; Rentals are hard to come by, and just as unaffordable. The vacancy rate of 0.8 percent is one of the lowest in the country, and the average monthly rent of C$937 for a bachelor suite is tied at highest with the cost in Toronto, according to Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. Rents for newly built units and renovated basement suites are pr…

You've pretty much got it. Still, while expensive, renting is still much more affordable than buying. The other problem is, decent SFH rentals are very difficult to come by. Here in Victoria, my friends who are looking for houses are all starting families and would like more space than most apartments offer. Many of them would be fine with renting as long as prices are unbalanced, but the rental market selection if you want something larger than a 2-bedroom apartment is really sparse. Plus, many of the places you can find are only there until the owners manage to sell them, which obviously isn't ideal if you're looking to settle down.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#50

Yep, Canadian tech salaries can't compete with Silicon Valley

Well, to be fair, I'm not really sure any area can compete with SV in terms of raw salaries. But then again, how far does that salary really go given the absurd cost of living?
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