Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do • Hacker News Board

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#361

Post by lliamander » Tue, Mar 15, 2016, 5:48 PM UTC

Many people have rightly pointed out that terrorism, being a tail risk, should not have such an out-sized influence on policy or lead to the erosion of civil rights. If that is your take-away from this article, good for you.

Some people, including the article's author, then go on to argue that because of a different tail-risk (toddler's shooting people with guns) we should ban* all guns. This is a terrible argument. I am not saying there are no good arguments out there, I am saying this is not one of them.

*Yes, I said ban. Guns are already regulated, no proposed legislation would prevent this incident, and bans are the explicit end goal of most pro gun-control groups[1]

[1]http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=4912

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#362

Post by FireBeyond » Tue, Mar 15, 2016, 5:49 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #201

And more toddlers die in backyard swimming pools than by any terrorist. Once again, the CDC has an amazing list[1] of what kills US citizens in the USA. Violence doesn't even make the top 15 anymore. Self-harm is at position 10 and we really need to work on that. Plus, all the places with the most restrictive gun laws in the US are the most violent and have the most murders. Stop blaming an object, and start blaming…

There's also a funny, "startling" correlation between those who would be both the largest defenders of gun rights and ownership who point to "terrrorists and the mentally ill"... who also are the heaviest lobbiers for reducing funding and services available to those same mentally ill, decrying it as 'not their problem'.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#363

Post by 13thLetter » Tue, Mar 15, 2016, 5:49 PM UTC

alistairSH wrote: post #83

neonhomer wrote: post #61

I always hate these kind of articles. As a US citizen there's only rule when it comes to firearms and that's the 2nd Amendment: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Until a new Amendment is passed to revoke this individual right, all arguments are invalid.

So, we should all be allowed to own bazookas and nukes and aircraft carriers? Because, if this is about securing the state (either against a tyrannical government, or a 3rd party), rifles and handguns aren't going to cut it. Or, are you limiting your interpretation to firearms in common use at the time of the Constitutional Convention? In which case, you can turn in your Glock and your AK. Point being, we already hav…

> So, we should all be allowed to own bazookas and nukes and aircraft carriers?

I can't think of any reason why someone couldn't own an aircraft carrier today, other than that they cost four billion dollars of course. You can own your own tank, as long as the weapons are nonfunctional and you just drive it on your own property.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#364

Post by 13thLetter » Tue, Mar 15, 2016, 5:51 PM UTC

anexprogrammer wrote: post #80

neonhomer wrote: post #61

I always hate these kind of articles. As a US citizen there's only rule when it comes to firearms and that's the 2nd Amendment: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Until a new Amendment is passed to revoke this individual right, all arguments are invalid.

My understanding, and someone correct me if I am wrong, is the 2nd amendment was in no way held to be a generic right for all to bear arms until the 1970s. The NRA created the gun lobby out of nothing at all. EDIT: Found some links, it was 1977. here's one: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/nra-guns-seco...

You could say the same thing about gay marriage, of course.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#365

Post by jjn2009 » Tue, Mar 15, 2016, 5:53 PM UTC

cm2187 wrote: post #53

saiya-jin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unless it's a mosquito with malaria or dengue :) (aka terrorist with nuclear/dirty bomb). terrorism is, above all, politically motivated theatrical act that should manipulate audience into something (fear and thus irrational behavior, election choices etc). plus some stray dogs that are out of any reasonable control. we humans are vastly irrational, and just because mankind landed on the moon doesn't mean emotions do…

The problem is the more we over react to it, the more we encourage the next attack. When a plane crashes, the medias are now reasonable and repeat again and again that it is an extremely rare event and that flying is very safe. For terrorism the message is "this could happen to you!".

It would be naive to think that turning the other cheek would make these people rethink their viewpoint, if we cannot expect them to rethink their viewpoint by pacifism then what other choice do we have than to take a hard stance against such actions. There should be a good balance between not exploiting peoples fear but also realizing that at some point you have to react.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#366

Post by knz » Tue, Mar 15, 2016, 5:58 PM UTC

jahewson wrote: post #339

LyndsySimon wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What about the criminals in the UK that do not obtain any firearm? There are likely a greater portion of unarmed criminals in the UK. Since their potential victims are also unarmed, that means that are at the mercy of physically dominating criminals. I fail to see how this is an improvement. > Someone carrying a cheap pistol is still more heavily armed than someone carrying brass knuckles. Practically speaking, a p…

As someone who spent most of their life in the UK, allow me to explain why you are utterly wrong . > There are likely a greater portion of unarmed criminals in the UK. Since their potential victims are also unarmed, that means that they are at the mercy of physically dominating criminals. It's certainly true that most criminals in the UK are unarmed, but the "physically dominating" bit is way off the mark because mos…

> The per-capita homicide rate in the US is 5x higher than the UK and that difference is almost entirely composed of gun crime.

Is this because of the accessibility of firearms or other factors (specifically inequality and poverty)? While it's true that the US has a higher per capita rate of homicide, the impacts are not evenly distributed across society. Most Americans live in safe communities with crimes rates similar to other OECD countries. Even within cities with high rates of crime, homicide is usually restricted to a small geographic area.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#367

Post by throwaway21816 » Tue, Mar 15, 2016, 5:59 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #237

throwaway21816 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but who in the world needs an assault rifle? Ignoring the "assault rifle" part of this. Semi-automatic carbines are great fun to shoot, they have a lower recoil impulse than traditional larger rifles and military surplus ammunition and parts generally creates a cheap and easy way to enjoy firearms. You can get an AR-15 for $600 or so and spend an afternoon enjoying it without a hurt shoulder or a bloody nose.

The question is then should society enable that enjoyment at the risk of mass-shootings. Could people maybe get their kicks a different way. I've only shot air-rifles and shotguns IRL, I can appreciate the addictive qualities.

Everything can be used in a destructive fashion, if a society is mature enough then it can enjoy them. Alcohol, private planes, cars, knives, food,etc all carry the same risk of abuse as guns.

More americans die of eating too much food each year than in all gun deaths ,let alone mass shootings.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#368

Post by throwaway21816 » Tue, Mar 15, 2016, 6:04 PM UTC

optimuspaul wrote: post #213

rogersmith wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then on the other hand we have: Exhibit A) Switzerland, 25 guns for 100 inhabitants, two mass shootings in the last 100 years Exhibit B) France, extremely restrictive gun laws, two mass shootings in less than one year So there's that...

France has 31.2 guns for 100 inhabitants. Also Switzerland's gun control laws are probably more extreme than that of France.

France has roughly the same permitting system and storage regulations as Switzerland but you may not posses given types of rifles/handguns. Furthermore there is a limit on ammunition you can purchase per year.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#369

Post by yrro » Tue, Mar 15, 2016, 6:09 PM UTC

LyndsySimon wrote: post #212

maxerickson wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the criminals in the UK that do not obtain any firearm? Someone carrying a cheap pistol is still more heavily armed than someone carrying brass knuckles. I'm not going to go find the facts and figures, still, I'm pretty sure that the incidence of gun crime is higher in the US, pointing out that gun buying criminals in the UK probably buy nicer guns doesn't change that.

> What about the criminals in the UK that do not obtain any firearm? There are likely a greater portion of unarmed criminals in the UK. Since their potential victims are also unarmed, that means that are at the mercy of physically dominating criminals. I fail to see how this is an improvement. > Someone carrying a cheap pistol is still more heavily armed than someone carrying brass knuckles. Practically speaking, a p…

> Practically speaking, a person with a 6" knife can do far more damage to a person and have a higher likelihood of inflicting a mortal wound than someone with a .38 revolver.

What complete crap.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#370

Post by ta0967 » Tue, Mar 15, 2016, 6:09 PM UTC

magicGLASSman wrote: post #314

ta0967 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > Trump phenomenon fueled on xenophobia, racism, and authoritarianism, which is scary for minorities, is an example of a gov that could go crazy. > Sentences like this are not arguments they are emotional regurgitations of fear created by endless news cycles of ad hominem attacks and half truths. or maybe they're simple observations of the guy himself talking uninterrupted in his election rallies. i saw some on tv,…

I agree he is a sales man and it can be off putting to a lot of people. On the other hand comparing him to the qualities of Hitler is a extreme misrepresentation and it is just godwin's law.

you're the first to pull the hitler card in this thread.

though you have a point, his campain does resemble Hitler's. sure, it's jews in one and brown people in the other... other than that? the greatest nation on earth under siege! let's make this country great again! they will pay for what they've done to us!