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Dropbox’s Exodus from the Amazon Cloud

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Re: Dropbox’s Exodus from the Amazon Cloud

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it is actually a job title at all sorts of places.

And if you google it, you'll see plenty of discussion around why that's controversial. https://www.google.com/search?q=devops+job+title&ie=utf-8&oe...

Whether it's controversial or not has no bearing on the fact that it is at this point a time most certainly a job title.

Re: Dropbox’s Exodus from the Amazon Cloud

#232
post #216
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, a 1PB+ failure domain only made sense because Magic Pocket is very good at automatic cluster management and repair.

Surely it's the other way round? That is, the better your software can handle repair, the smaller your failure domain can be? A larger failure domain would only make sense if you wanted to minimize the compute required per unit stored?

We do want to minimize that--compute costs money, and storage is irreducible. But you can only reduce aggressively if your larger distributed system is great at repairs, since the failure of a single box kicks off 1PB of repair activity!

Re: Dropbox’s Exodus from the Amazon Cloud

#233
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to Backblaze this level of storage density is really only possible with recent advances in disk technology (higher densities, SMR storage, etc). Also not everyone wants to be packing a petabyte into a box. At that level of density you need to invest a lot of effort in replication strategies, tooling, network fabric etc to handle failures with high levels of availability/durability.

Is dropbox using SMR? (I never used dropbox. Do they offer incremental backup? Otherwise I would have thought they would need to be able to do random writes, unless SMR is so cheap that it is economical to keep some dead data when a user uploads a new version of a file)

Magic Pocket is a block storage system, and all storage in it is append only. We'll go into more detail on the on-disk format in a blog post. But, yes, we use the SMR disks on an HBA, and we directly address the disk on a LBA (and zone) basis.

Re: Dropbox’s Exodus from the Amazon Cloud

#234
post #222
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference to get even higher is our system supports host-managed SMR disks that come in 10T and 14T sizes.

What interface and protocol do your drives have/use? Is it SATA, SAS or a custom interface/protocol?

SATA SMR disks, zone management is ZAC.

Re: Dropbox’s Exodus from the Amazon Cloud

#235
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10 TB drives can be gotten off the shelf -- http://www.hgst.com/products/hard-drives/ultrastar-he10 -- and 14 TB drives are probably in the state of availability for large customers; it's not unusual for drive makers to make available drives coming down the pipe to certain customers.

True, it's just that they also tend to shout about upcoming drives and boast that they are previewing to select customers. Case in point, HGST marketing is in full swing on that He10 but good luck finding any stock in a mainstream retailer.

Yep, vendors do sometimes provide stock to large customers ahead of general availability.

Re: Dropbox’s Exodus from the Amazon Cloud

#236
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good questions, let me try to tackle them one by one. > The article makes a brief mention of Go causing issues with RAM usage. Was this due to large heap usage, or was it a problem of GC pressure/throughput/latency? If the former, what were some of the core problems that could not be further optimized in Go? The reasons for using rust were many, but memory was one of them. Primarily, for this particular project, the…

Did you guys use a custom allocator for rust? And if so how did it differ from jemalloc and how could it be compared to C++ allocators like tbb::scalable_allocator?

We use a custom version of jemalloc, with profiling enabled so that we can use it.

We also tweak jemalloc pretty heavily for our workload.

Re: Dropbox’s Exodus from the Amazon Cloud

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lazy answer but we'll blog about this in the next month. On a high level it's variable-sized blocks packed into 1GB extents, which are then aggregated into volumes and erasure coded across a set of disks on different machines/racks/rows/etc. We also replicate cross-country in addition to this. Live writes are written into non-erasure-coded volumes and encoded in the background. The volume metadata on the disks contai…

Are live writes replicated in real time, or are they locally staged (which is what Facebook does, I believe) Also, do you mimic the eventually consistent behaviour of AWS, or do you offer a stronger form of consistency?

Live writes are written out with 4x redundancy in the local zone, then asynchronously replicated out to the remote zone. Some time later, it is erasure coded into a more space-efficient format, independently in each zone.

Re: Dropbox’s Exodus from the Amazon Cloud

#238

It looks like the servers they make use of are purchasable, part of the Dell DSS series - the DSS7000: http://downloads.dell.com/manuals/common/dss%207000_dss%2075... 90x 3.5in disks, 2x compute nodes with 2x E5-2600v3 CPUs.

We actually use several different servers from different vendors, and some of them are more customized than others.

Re: Dropbox’s Exodus from the Amazon Cloud

#239

Unrelated to the content of the article--I've never seen the oft talked about "anti-adblocker interstitial" before. I was surprised to find that the website blocks viewing of the article entirely because I'm running Adblock. It's an interesting subject. I'll never click on or be persuaded by ads, so they're not really gaining anything by showing me ads. I'm essentially worthless traffic to them no matter how they cut…

This was the first time I bumped into it as well. It was a bit jarring at first, but easy enough to whitelist. I think it's a reasonable request.

Re: Dropbox’s Exodus from the Amazon Cloud

#240

The word "cloud" loses all meaning in this article. "The irony is that in fleeing the cloud, Dropbox is showing why the cloud is so powerful. It too is building infrastructure so that others don’t have to. It too is, well, a cloud company." Wait ... so using AWS is "cloud", having your own servers is "cloud" too. Everything is cloudy!

It is true that there are two concepts conflated in "the cloud". The first, and by far the most important from a technology standpoint, is the ability to grow and shrink pools of storage, servers, databases, etc. simply by plugging and unplugging hardware. Robust failover, dynamic data replication, all these things are necessary before you can begin having cloud services, and in fact, Google and others had this well before there was such a thing as a cloud.

The second aspect is paying on an incremental basis for someone else to provide the pools developed in the first part. But that's more or less a trivial extension once you've got the first.

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