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Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

theguardian.com

21–30 of 438 posts

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#21

Using the argument form of this article you could make any number of outrageously nonsensical claims. The form is basically X does Y more than Z, where X occurs vastly more than Z in some population. Examples: 1. white caucasians commit more crime in the Canada than all other ethnic groups combined! 2. In Sweden the common cold is more lethal than HIV! In my opinion article exemplifies the antithesis of a decent argu…

Perhaps if HIV was endlessly highlighted by government and the media as a major problem in Sweden your analogy might have made some sense. In my opinion your post exemplifies the antithesis of a decent argument or even legitimate criticism.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#22
post #18
post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

UK govt does kill its citizens though. Without trial. The restrictions of guns by the government ensures you have no defense from the one entity that has killed more people than anything. Their own govt. http://blogs.ft.com/david-allen-green/2015/09/08/when-does-t...

Get real. Or a tin foil hat.

I am mid thirties, grown up in the UK and not having guns here is amazing. People don't get shot, as a teenager in the council flats in the UK, no-one is going to turn up with a gun, or carry a gun. And unsurprisingly, people make mistakes with guns (accidents happen).

I have been forever conflicted, as I love the idea of guns, I wanted them as a kid/teenager, the idea of having such a tool is fascinating. However they are reserved for video games in my life...

The only time I may regret this is in some kind of completely hypothetical situation (zombies, aliens, gov gone crazy) which is so unlikely to happen I would rather the tools to kill each other very quickly were not legally available.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#23
post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

I don't think it worked out quite the way you said:

http://crimeresearch.org/2013/12/murder-and-homicide-rates-b...

Obligatory un-zeroed-axis warning, but the point stands.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#24
post #18
post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

UK govt does kill its citizens though. Without trial. The restrictions of guns by the government ensures you have no defense from the one entity that has killed more people than anything. Their own govt. http://blogs.ft.com/david-allen-green/2015/09/08/when-does-t...

Imagining the mental gymnastics you went through to bring this up was the best laugh I've had all day.

Trying to say owning a handgun would prevent a clandestine branch of a first world governments assassination.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#25
When was the last time a toddler killing someone led to the passage of something like the Patriot Act or the creation of a department like Homeland Security. Terrorism isn't about killing as many people as possible, it's about instilling terror in your enemy and all the negative stuff that goes along with that. Comparing it to accidents involving guns and toddlers is lazy.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#26
post #18
post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

UK govt does kill its citizens though. Without trial. The restrictions of guns by the government ensures you have no defense from the one entity that has killed more people than anything. Their own govt. http://blogs.ft.com/david-allen-green/2015/09/08/when-does-t...

As opposed to the USA I assume you mean. Given the number of deaths from police officers alone it hardly supports your argument.

You had a revolution once and talk about gun rights as if you were expecting one again. And the threat of one is hardly doing anything to contain your governments continual erosion of all of your other constitutional rights.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#27
post #2

This doesn't mean toddlers are more dangerous than terrorists. It means there are more toddlers. I don't think the internal logic of the argument works anyway. Do people react to terrorism solely because of the perception of present danger? I always thought terrorism was feared because it signalled that a group of people would prefer to dominate their host with violence than to assimilate into the predominant culture…

The point of this article is not that children are more dangerous than terrorists. The point is that terrorism over-dominates national discussion of priorities.

Focus on terrorism is worrisome because it kills relatively fewer people than the top national stressors, it distracts the nation in its very limited capacity to discuss anything, it justifies extreme expenditure, and by its covert nature it is difficult to mediate in effect size.

Does terrorism warrant attention and expenditure? Yes. But it should get in line behind highly preventable or mediatable stressors like vehicle and gun related deaths.

The nation has spent trillions trying to fight terrorism, terrorism that has killed several thousand American civilians in total throughout all years. In response the nation went to war with Iraq, which itself costed thousands of lives on the American side, and over 100,000 deaths to Iraqis.

Terrorism has justified massive expansion of executive powers, it has led to opaque operations like extraordinary rendition, torture, and black sites, it has justified mass surveillance, it has led the discussion on privacy and encryption, it has led to new executive departments with budgets in the billions per year, and it justifies the use of secret courts with secret judges and secret warrants.

All in the name of fighting terrorists, while severe domestic stressors take a backseat in national priority.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#29
post #3

Most things that kill people in the USA kill more people than terrorists do. The comparison is purposely sensationalistic and cheapens the argument much like 'think of the children.'

Have you perhaps considered that the treatment of terrorism is "purely sensationalistic" as well? The argument against terrorism shouldn't be "cheapened", but it should have far less value than it currently does. There are far more pressing issues, some of which will actually decrease the threat of terrorism. (for example: global access to education and healthcare, as well as moderate, tolerant leadership will decrea…

Terrorism is almost by definition sensationalist. The argument I referred to as cheapened was the argument being made in the article against guns.

Both sides of the gun argument are very passionate. In order for either to make headway with the other they have to avoid starting with hyperbole. Instead, all you get is both sides shouting at each other.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#30
post #18
post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

UK govt does kill its citizens though. Without trial. The restrictions of guns by the government ensures you have no defense from the one entity that has killed more people than anything. Their own govt. http://blogs.ft.com/david-allen-green/2015/09/08/when-does-t...

How is that related? If your own government, for some reason, decided to kill you, there's not much you can do against a heavily armed SWAT team, with or without your small firearm. And if by this argument you mean that owning firearms en masse somehow keep government in line and ensures democracy, that's a moot point, since there are even (arguably) better functioning democracies than USA all over the world that chose to ban firearms completely except for military/antiterorist use.
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