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Windows 7 computers are automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade

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Re: Windows 7 computers are automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade

#141

Post by brownbat »

IgorPartola wrote: post #51

I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, Windows badly needs a better update mechanism. This has been a huge pain point for consumers for a long time, which often results in buying new hardware instead of updating the browser, etc. On the other hand I think this will drive people away from Windows and towards OS X and Ubuntu. Oh right, there is no downside to this!

On the one hand, a bunch of old insecure machines will get fixed. On the other hand, a bunch of other old insecure machines will get bricked.

In other words, win/win for security teams fighting botnets.

Re: Windows 7 computers are automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade

#143

Post by Esau »

capabit wrote: post #128
robertelder wrote: post #59

Re-posting my comment from the other thread which didn't get as much attention: I spent about 3 hours this week doing tech support for my mom over the phone because of Windows 10's aggressive upgrading behaviour. I told her to keep her the best way to keep safe security wise is to make sure the os/browser is up to date, and because Windows 10 keeps asking to upgrade, she went ahead and did so. After upgrading to Wind…

> Also, there seems to be a number of people here commenting very strongly in favour of Microsoft Count me (shockingly) in the pro Microsoft group here. After years and years of supporting family PCs, I understand and appreciate what they're trying to do. If you make updating something the user has to do, they'll never do it. If you prompt them to update, they'll never do it. Even if they've had the why of it explain…

So safety is more important than freedom? The attorney general and the FBI must really love you.

Re: Windows 7 computers are automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade

#144

Post by ebbv »

robertelder wrote: post #59

Re-posting my comment from the other thread which didn't get as much attention: I spent about 3 hours this week doing tech support for my mom over the phone because of Windows 10's aggressive upgrading behaviour. I told her to keep her the best way to keep safe security wise is to make sure the os/browser is up to date, and because Windows 10 keeps asking to upgrade, she went ahead and did so. After upgrading to Wind…

> Also, there seems to be a number of people here commenting very strongly in favour of Microsoft, which I find very surprising. Perhaps people from MS trying to do damage control?

Sometime in the last couple years Microsoft has realized how important online discussion is to a company's reputation and has begun an aggressive campaign of let's call it "community outreach".

Unfortunately though it appears to me to be astro turfing, the admins here and elsewhere seem to believe it to be legitimate, so whatever techniques they're using are sophisticated.

Re: Windows 7 computers are automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade

#145

Post by teh_klev »

yarou wrote: post #126
chris_wot wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude. Personal attacks aren't welcome here. I think you know this, as you are using a throwaway account.

And yet the law is applied unfairly on HN. Dang warned me that I'd be banned if I ever insinuated that somebody was shilling, yet several people are openly doing it in this thread. I don't see their warnings. Sorry for continuing the derail, but it's downright infuriating when you see moderation not applied equally to everyone.

And he also recommends that users email hn directly if they suspect shilling/sock puppetry etc instead of derailing the discussion with accusations:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11260725

Re: Windows 7 computers are automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade

#146

Post by Terr_ »

chris_wot wrote: post #100
HelloMcFly wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Perhaps people from MS trying to do damage control? While I appreciate the rest of your comment, I personally find comment like these are obnoxious. I sincerely doubt that vote and comment brigading are anywhere near as prevalent as reddit and this community seem to so routinely imply. Perhaps I'm the naive one, but it is tiresome to so regularly see comments (especially those close to one's own personal beliefs) c…

I would normally agree, but Microsoft have a very well known pattern of astroturfing. Hell, they invented practically invented the Internet version in 2001. I'd like to think that under Satya Nadella's reign they would have stopped, but they are still doing dodgy shit like forced upgrades to Windows 10. To say that this is an utter PR nightmare is a complete understatement. If, as some comments indicate, they have br…

I think it's much easier to believe in Microsoft Astroturfing given all the other pretty-well-documented sleazy stuff going on at the same time. In for a penny, in for a pound...

Re: Windows 7 computers are automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade

#147

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

HelloMcFly wrote: post #116
carapace wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth I believe you are being wildly naive. Have a nice day.

It isn't worth much, but - believe it or not - it's not totally worthless either. Note my wording though: I believe it does happen at times, I doubt it happens with the frequency claimed on HN and reddit. Hearing more first-hand accounts of it occurring is required for me to move substantially on my opinion. As is, it's primarily speculation and people asking others to "trust them, it happens." That said, I could do…

>I believe it does happen at times

Rather like a forced OS upgrade - how many times is too often?

Re: Windows 7 computers are automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade

#148

Post by hayksaakian »

Someone1234 wrote: post #22
hayksaakian wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dark patterns http://darkpatterns.org "I clicked 'update security' and it gave me Windows 10!"

Microsoft did bundle the IE banner upgrade advertiser with security updates recently, and that was uncool/unacceptable. But I've never seen an update security button that actually INSTALLS Windows 10, and that is specifically what this complaint is about, the upgrade starting on its own. As I said if there is a bug that causes upgrades to occur without permission then people need to provide production steps. If there…

there's a distinction between user error and forced-on-purpose

that's what I was getting at.

For example, if there was some UI which says.

"Get the Newest most Secure version of Windows (Download Now)"

with some fine print which says you will be installing windows 10 as part of the security upgrade

would that be considered 'user error' or user-hostile-design?

Re: Windows 7 computers are automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade

#149

Post by jdietrich »

robertelder wrote: post #59

Re-posting my comment from the other thread which didn't get as much attention: I spent about 3 hours this week doing tech support for my mom over the phone because of Windows 10's aggressive upgrading behaviour. I told her to keep her the best way to keep safe security wise is to make sure the os/browser is up to date, and because Windows 10 keeps asking to upgrade, she went ahead and did so. After upgrading to Wind…

>Also, there seems to be a number of people here commenting very strongly in favour of Microsoft, which I find very surprising.

I think it's an issue of trust.

On the one hand, Microsoft have taken some positive steps - making meaningful OSS contributions, following standards in Edge, making sensible statements about crypto etc.

On the other hand, Microsoft have an atrocious track record of corporate citizenship, typified by the Halloween memos. While they have been making progress, they are still a long way from perfect. Even if their current actions were beyond reproach, rebuilding trust takes time.

I think some people on HN want to give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt, while others think it's just the same old bullshit under a new coat of paint. Personally, I think we should take each issue on merit. Praise where praise is due and criticise where criticism is due.

Re: Windows 7 computers are automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade

#150

Post by Terr_ »

ross-life wrote: post #86
IgorPartola wrote: post #51

I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, Windows badly needs a better update mechanism. This has been a huge pain point for consumers for a long time, which often results in buying new hardware instead of updating the browser, etc. On the other hand I think this will drive people away from Windows and towards OS X and Ubuntu. Oh right, there is no downside to this!

> On the other hand I think this will drive people away from Windows and towards OS X and Ubuntu. They already pushed too far. Was a life long Windows user, used at home for gamedev and Steam, chosen at work (mainly QA) because it's what I knew extensively, VS is great and it's what users used. Was literally the only Windows user in a sea of OS X machines at some companies. Now? All my personal and work devices run U…

IMO Microsoft has completely pissed-away huge amount of accumulated techie-goodwill in an astonishingly short period of time.

I think it's due to how much of it really does look like malice (or at least disrespect for computer-owners) rather than mere incompetence.

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