Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use • Hacker News Board

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#231

Post by henrikschroder » Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 11:56 PM UTC

cgriswald wrote: post #184

Gratsby wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they have such a cheap car (not in the US anyways). But it is my understanding that they offer it in their lowest end models.

The Driver Assistance Package ($2500) on the CLA250 brings the total of the base model to ~$35K. It includes DISTRONIC PLUS (which regulates distance and speed), Blind Spot Assist, and Lane Keeping Assist. I'm not sure what that entails in the newer models. My 2013 MB seems to only alert me if I'm drifting onto the shoulder. I don't think it corrects it for me.

I have a 2014 E-class with DISTRONIC PLUS, and it turns the steering to stay in the lane. I'm assuming a current CLA has the same if it has DISTRONIC PLUS.

The shoulder drifting feature is a different feature, at least on my car, and it's not tied to whether cruise control is engaged or not.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#232

Post by henrikschroder » Tue, Mar 15, 2016, 12:00 AM UTC

Gratsby wrote: post #102

adrianN wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But do they have it in such a cheap car? I know that the feature existed for a long time in very expensive cars.

I don't think they have such a cheap car (not in the US anyways). But it is my understanding that they offer it in their lowest end models.

In Germany, you can get an A-klasse with DISTRONIC PLUS (and absolutely nothing else) for $30k, but it's an almost $4k accessory, it's not standard, and if you're shopping in that segment it would be very weird to pick that option and nothing else.

So Honda's offering is actually pretty spectacular!

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#233

Post by vvanders » Tue, Mar 15, 2016, 12:03 AM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #222

vvanders wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's doesn't. At least not 99% of the time(occasionally I'll get a hold message but most of the time it just resumes).

Oddly, it used to require manual intervention to resume after any stop longer than five seconds. Then they bumped it up to 30 seconds on highways. Then they (mostly) removed it.

Yeah I've only seen it twice since the last major ap update.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#234

Post by henrikschroder » Tue, Mar 15, 2016, 12:04 AM UTC

elif wrote: post #150

kazinator wrote: post #15

Americans could rather use a robot highway driving instructor. "Consider moving over to the right line; you're driving at the speed limit, and a speeding car is approaching; you may confirm this in the rear-view mirror." "I have detected that you came to a full stop at the end of a generous freeway entrance ramp in light traffic. Suggested future action: look over the shoulder as early as possible and match the speed…

My reaction is the complete opposite. I see people buying these $20k safe cars for their teenage children, who will be 1) less skilled as drivers 2) feel empowered to push the limits of impaired driving

Seriously, putting cars with brake-assist technology in the hands of drivers who are already overrepresented in accident statistics is a good thing. Life doesn't have to be hard-mode all the time.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#235

Post by akamaka » Tue, Mar 15, 2016, 12:18 AM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #132

akamaka wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I blame Elon Musk for this shift in the meaning of "self-driving". It used to be a term that was only applied to driverless cars, but last year Elon announced that they plan to make the Tesla a self-driving car at the same time as announcing similar driver assistance features. While Tesla's driver assistance features are much more advanced than these, it's not much of a stretch after Elon already fired the first mark…

When did he shift the goalpost? People are indeed quite confused about what current driver assist features are capable of, but Tesla has been quite clear about exactly what they offer now, what they plan to offer in the near term, and what they hope to offer in the longer term. The main problem I've seen people complain about is the use of the word "autopilot" to describe Tesla's features. And that's only because peo…

I agree with everything you say, and to me the goalposts shifted because he was purposely ambiguous in the way he announced autopilot at the same time as promising a fully self-driving car soon. So now a self-driving car isn't going to be a whole new product, but an accumulation of added features, one of which is autopilot. The implication is that cars with radars and lane detection are already self-driving cars that just need a few more upgrades to cover that other 20% of the time that you're not on the highway.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#236

Post by bri3d » Tue, Mar 15, 2016, 12:34 AM UTC

osteele wrote: post #167

akama wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would guess you are correct about how they make sure your hands are on the wheel. I've done some car hacking and one of the things that surprised me was how sensitive some cars steering wheels are to pressure. It was impossible to keep it in the same position according to the car's internal electronic systems with my hands on it. This is car is 4 years old, so it's probably only gotten more sensitive.

I have a Tesla, that also requires hands on the wheel from time to time. I'd assumed it was capacitive. It hadn't occurred to me that it might be subtle movements, because the wheel is unresponsive until you make a purposeful movement, at which point it starts moving with your hands; and you can just rest your hands against it lightly to let it know they're there. But of course it could be sensing subtle forces, even…

According to this article, Tesla's system is not capacitive : http://www.wired.com/2015/10/tesla-self-driving-over-air-upd...

One interesting thing to try, still, would be to stuff a full water bottle into the gaps in the steering wheel to emulate a hand, like so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi2oIRMwmZY

This definitely works for many capacitive systems, but I think this might also work for some of the movement-based systems, since it will add extra mass/inertia to the wheel and the water sloshing around could emulate small hand movements.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#237

Post by UnoriginalGuy » Tue, Mar 15, 2016, 1:21 AM UTC

brianwawok wrote: post #198

Someone1234 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want to say, I have a similar vehicle system (Eyesight, rather than Honda Sensing) and I agree with everything you are saying. It isn't self-driving, it is just a bunch of really cool driver assist technology. Unfortunately the reason why these systems fail on sharp turns is that the lane-line literally falls outside of the camera's vision. Aside from adding two more cameras (which I'd welcome) I cannot see th…

AWD is actually not that important in safe driving. AWD ensures you can always go forward. In a bad situation you don't care about going forward, you care about stopping and steering. So brakes and tires matter. We all have 4 wheel brakes, so set there. Get some awesome snow tires and 2WD and you will steer/stop fine in the snow. Plow up a hill through snowbanks? Maybe not.

AWD assures you always have traction, tracking means steering, therefore AWD means you retain steering in bad conditions. If you move to a snowy area the majority of vehicles have either AWD or 4WD, the few that don't NEED snow tires just to make it work.

AWD used to be questionable because of the price and fuel economy, but these days thanks to computer controls, it is close to 1 MpG, and the price has come down to within a thousand dollars of a non-AWD vehicle (in fact several manufacturers do 1-1.5K AWD upgrades).

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#238

Post by SystemOut » Tue, Mar 15, 2016, 1:44 AM UTC

ben1040 wrote: post #27

This looks like the "Sensing" feature that Honda has implemented on some of their other vehicles. I just bought a 2016 Accord that does the same thing -- there's a camera mounted on the windshield, another camera in the front grille, and a radar sensor on the front bumper. Calling it "self-driving" is kind of a misnomer and I think the article kind of blows it out of proportion. It will track the car in front of you…

I have a 2016 VW GTI that has the same feature set. It's cool and all but more of a safety feature if you happen to fall asleep while driving than anything else. Just hope that if you fall asleep that there is sufficient contrast between the pavement and the lane markers.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#239

Post by Bud » Tue, Mar 15, 2016, 1:51 AM UTC

prostoalex wrote: post #76

kazinator wrote: post #15

Americans could rather use a robot highway driving instructor. "Consider moving over to the right line; you're driving at the speed limit, and a speeding car is approaching; you may confirm this in the rear-view mirror." "I have detected that you came to a full stop at the end of a generous freeway entrance ramp in light traffic. Suggested future action: look over the shoulder as early as possible and match the speed…

From personal experience a lot of people would benefit from Blinker Usage 101.

Not to mention the idiots who refuse to turn on their lights, even in a rainstorm with overcast skies, unless it's after 9pm, because after all, they can still see the road just fine!

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#240

Post by Bud » Tue, Mar 15, 2016, 2:00 AM UTC

massysett wrote: post #183

pnut wrote: post #129

The impending dawn of the autonomous car era is the reason why I am not marching on Washington for rail investment. This is really one time where cynical cheapskate politics may hasten rapid, positive societal change.

How does an autonomous car reduce the need for infrastructure investment? A bunch of commuters in self-driving cars will clog the road just as much. Less need for parking, maybe; less need for roads, no. Maybe you could squeeze a bit more capacity out of freeways by running cars at high speed at short following distances. But a lot of congestion occurs at intersections and self-driving does little to solve that.

Not "maybe" less need for parking. Definitely, certainly less need for parking. And remember that a lot of "road" surface is actually reserved for parking and not actually available to drive on. Same thing for having to have massive parking lots EVERYWHERE that people with cars might want to go; that can potentially go away completely.

And if you need much much less parking, guess what you also need less of? Parking meters. And parking tickets. Imagine a society without that pernicious bullshit everywhere.